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Thread: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

  1. #491
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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Explain to me why Medicare and SS are on budget still to this day and why would you support cutting those programs that you are paying into if you have a job? That is bs.
    I totally agree. In my view, he has conceded WAY too much to the Republicans like that. Now, his thinking is that the Republicans are pushing for far more severe cuts to those programs than this, so maybe he can compromise with them and find middle ground. But what he doesn't appear to be learning in my view is that the Republicans of today can't be compromised with. I'd take a more hard line against them and not include any cuts to Social Security at least. But what I don't get is why if you are against cutting them at all you would possibly vote Republican... That makes no sense. You seem to have the sides backwards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    As for spending cuts in other areas, there are no such cuts as he uses the baseline which is the current budget and reduces the growth thus calling it a savings.
    Of course. That's what both sides are doing- measuring the cuts against the current budget. Doesn't really make sense to measure them against current spending. Since we're in a recession and fighting two wars, if you just measure against current spending, no change in policy at all would look like massive deficit reduction. Revenues will come up and expenses will go down. So, you measure against the planned budget, current revenue projections and current expense projections. That's the only logical way to look at it.

    For example, much is made of him counting the withdrawls from Iraq and Afghanistan as spending cuts. Well what he did was to withdraw troops faster than planned and count the difference. What you are calling for- measuring against current spending- would mean not only counting that amount, but also counting the already planned reductions in troop levels.... Instead of $1.1 trillion, it would count as much MORE. On top of that he could count the revenue projections based on the projected economic recovery as revenue gains.

    I dunno. I know that is kind of a tricky concept. Think it through a bit before you reply please. It's the opposite way around from what you were thinking. Counting against the current plan generally results in LOWER numbers than counting against current spending would.
    Last edited by teamosil; 09-22-11 at 02:07 PM.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    So you are proposing increasing taxes on all taxpayers?
    I personally would, but if I was going to target someone not to, it would middle and lower income folks and not the wealthy. I would accept either as an improvement, maybe a compromise.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    First, he's not my hero. I voted for Bob Dole. Second, someone saying something you like alone isn't enough. Try addressing the points I have made.
    I would be happy to address your points if they had anything to do with the thread topic and the attempts of "your" President to raise FIT on the rich claiming they need to pay their fair share. I have addressed your posts that actually address the thread topic.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I personally would, but if I was going to target someone not to, it would middle and lower income folks and not the wealthy. I would accept either as an improvement, maybe a compromise.
    Do you accept that the President of the United States lied when he said "It is wrong that in the United States of America, a teacher or a nurse or a construction worker who earns $50,000 should pay higher tax rates than somebody pulling in $50 million. ... We can't afford these special lower rates for the wealthy. ... Middle-class families shouldn't pay higher taxes than millionaires and billionaires" or do you feel he was mistaken, or do you feel he only misrepresented the situation?

    In other words is he stupid, does he believe the American people to be stupid, or is he just a liar?

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You would be wrong. Business functions on a different incentive system. if there is a customer willing to spend, business will provide the product regardless of what obama does.
    I spent 35 years in the business world so please don't try and tell me how business functions. Companies are going to provide goods and services with less people and right now economic growth is meager and doesn't warrant expansion of their labor force.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I spent 35 years in the business world so please don't try and tell me how business functions. Companies are going to provide goods and services with less people and right now economic growth is meager and doesn't warrant expansion of their labor force.
    One reason they do not need people is that technology has replaced people. Look at a company like Facebook with a market valuation in the 10's of billions. Guess how many people they employ..............2,500

    For such a self-proclaimed business expert you should be aware of things like this.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    teamosil;1059816611]I totally agree. In my view, he has conceded WAY too much to the Republicans like that. Now, his thinking is that the Republicans are pushing for far more severe cuts to those programs than this, so maybe he can compromise with them and find middle ground. But what he doesn't appear to be learning in my view is that the Republicans of today can't be compromised with. I'd take a more hard line against them and not include any cuts to Social Security at least. But what I don't get is why if you are against cutting them at all you would possibly vote Republican... That makes no sense. You seem to have the sides backwards.
    NO, again you don't get it, payroll taxes fund SS and SS and Medicare have no business being on budget. The money you put into SS is supposed to go for your retirement in the future. Instead it is put on budget where it doesn't belong and thus proposals to cut SS and Medicare make no sense yet you buy "your" President's rhetoric. WHY is SS and Medicare even on the table. Take them off budget NOW!

    Of course. That's what both sides are doing- measuring the cuts against the current budget. Doesn't really make sense to measure them against current spending. Since we're in a recession and fighting two wars, if you just measure against current spending, no change in policy at all would look like massive deficit reduction. Revenues will come up and expenses will go down. So, you measure against the planned budget, current revenue projections and current expense projections. That's the only logical way to look at it.
    Cutting the growth in spending isnt a cut at all and that is what you don't seem to understand. Cutting the growth of a 3.7 trillion dollar budget isn't a cut because at the end of the 10 years our debt will have increased by 9-10 trillion dollars with those cuts.

    As for economic growth, there is none because of the class warfare and anti private sector rhetoric. Govt. spending is about 20% of GDP so it is a small fraction of the total. Consumer spending is 2/3 of GDP and that is where the spending has to come from and you dont generate that spending with higher taxes and no incentive to create jobs.

    For example, much is made of him counting the withdrawls from Iraq and Afghanistan as spending cuts. Well what he did was to withdraw troops faster than planned and count the difference. What you are calling for- measuring against current spending- would mean not only counting that amount, but also counting the already planned reductions in troop levels.... Instead of $1.1 trillion, it would count as much MORE. On top of that he could count the revenue projections based on the projected economic recovery as revenue gains.
    So if he is cutting spending for Iraq and Afghanistan, why are the budgets higher than they were with Iraq and Afghanistan? Those cuts should have been part of the budget and were therefore there are no cuts, just more Obama rhetoric

    I dunno. I know that is kind of a tricky concept. Think it through a bit before you reply please. It's the opposite way around from what you were thinking. Counting against the current plan generally results in LOWER numbers than counting against current spending would.
    I have thought about it and the only way to get significant cuts is to start with the 2008 budget and cut from there with actual cuts like eliminating entire departments, Education, Agriculature, Energy, etc.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I spent 35 years in the business world so please don't try and tell me how business functions. Companies are going to provide goods and services with less people and right now economic growth is meager and doesn't warrant expansion of their labor force.
    here we go again....did you own the company? i believe that answer was no....you were a low level manager, you didnt make the 'BIG' decisions, you carried out the orders of your superiors. your supposed 35 yrs of experience has no relevance in this thread.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I spent 35 years in the business world so please don't try and tell me how business functions. Companies are going to provide goods and services with less people and right now economic growth is meager and doesn't warrant expansion of their labor force.
    Don't know if you did or didn't, but I'm corect about what I said. Business isn't waiting around on the president if they ahve customwers. Sorry, but you're wrong.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Don't know if you did or didn't, but I'm corect about what I said. Business isn't waiting around on the president if they ahve customwers. Sorry, but you're wrong.
    Businesses are not going to hire more workers with the current economic conditions but as usual you focus on the big businesses, not the small businesses which hire 80% of the workers. The small businesses are hit the hardest by Obama economic policy, the big businesses will just do more with less thank to technology.

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