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Thread: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

  1. #241
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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokified View Post
    I think our society will accept anything that "sounds good". Could it work? Maybe. Is it worth trying to implement a "band-aid" plan when the real solution lies elsewhere?
    What are the odds of a "real solution", h/e you define it, being passed?

    I know that there're more than one "real solution" to issues like illegal immigration and the drug wars that will never get anywhere simply because there's not enough political will to get any of them accomplished.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    The rich may have to pay a little more in taxes. WAAAAAAAAAA!

    The divide between the rich and the poor might actually close a tiny morsel. WAAAAAAAAAAA!

    "Class warfare." WAAAAAAAAAAA!

    The top tax bracket might actually nudge a bit closer to the Nixon tax rates or the Eisenhower tax rates. WAAAAAAAAAAAA!

    The rich may have to start buying slightly smaller yachts. WAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

    ===========

    Christ! What is up with the crybabiness??
    What if they asked you to actually start paying taxes? Waaaaaa. Shut up.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    You seem to only be talking about people on welfare? That's less than 1% of the country and less than 1% of the federal budget. It is only available to people who have young kids and only for a maximum of 5 years and what the hell else are we going to do? Let these kids live on the streets? Forget about that. Lets talk about the other 99% of the country.

    We have a huge deficit. There are three ways to fix it- we can increase taxes, we can cut domestic spending or we can cut military spending. Realistically none of these is enough alone. In fact, no two of these are even enough. We can't cut $1.6 trillion out of domestic spending. That would be nearly ALL domestic spending. That means collapsing into a third world country with no decent highways or safe food and whatnot. Nobody wants that. Same with the military. To cut that much in military spending you would need to cut everything from veteran's benefits to all of our personnel, everything. Tax hikes you could theoretically get $1.6 trillion a year, but you'd need to set taxes so high that the economy would be severely undermined.

    So, our only option that isn't totally disastrous is to do all three. But the GOP refuses to agree to two of the three. They're blocking action on the deficit. They know as well as everybody else does that we can't come close to closing the deficit just with domestic cuts.

    Now, the military spending cuts actually have a pretty narrow impact compared to the others. We have to back out of some military commitments, but frankly our military has been misused too often anyways. It will hurt military families though and that is rough and means a lot more unemployment. The domestic spending cuts would have a brutal impact on the middle class. People who were relying on medicare for example, suddenly need to pony up a lot more money, people who have kids heading towards college suddenly need to save a ton more, laying off a million or so people means unemployment shooting up and jobs being harder to find for everybody, etc. So all those things are huge sacrifices for the middle class to be making. They'd be putting a ton of skin in to the game.

    So, when we're looking at how to divide up the tax hikes, isn't it only fair that those would go to the rich, since they didn't have to pitch anything in yet? I don't see how we can possibly put the whole weight of the deficit on the shoulders of the middle class. It would pretty much crush it... Already the middle class is struggling and the rich are rapidly pulling away consuming more and more of our GDP every year. To put a $1.6 trillion weight around the neck of the middle class at a time like this and put nothing on the rich, that would be all she wrote for the middle class. We'd be headed towards just having 1% absurdly rich and 99% poor.
    Welfare, Medicare and Social Security are the 3 most expensive government programs. If you really truely believe that government assistance is as cut and dry as you are trying to make it sound then you need to spend less time reading liberal news stories and take a trip through a trailer park.

    Stop ignoring the glaringly obvious facts just to support your argument. If it is true that 1% of our population is on some kind of welfare yet that 1% accounts for 1 out of every 7 tax dollars, then there is serious problem here. The rich utilize public services far less than any other group, and for you to suggest that the people pay the most and use the least pay more is downright silly.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    What are the odds of a "real solution", h/e you define it, being passed?

    I know that there're more than one "real solution" to issues like illegal immigration and the drug wars that will never get anywhere simply because there's not enough political will to get any of them accomplished.
    Well with the way people want to distort reality just to support their desire to work less and receive more, there will never be a real solution other than the reality that everything will collapse and we will eventually have to rebuild.

    The problem is not the ideas, the problem is people that have your kind of attitude. Why try if nobody else is going to? Right?

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokified View Post
    The problem is not the ideas, the problem is people that have your kind of attitude. Why try if nobody else is going to? Right?
    You're way out in left field somewhere where there is no game going on. But, that's your prerogative.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokified View Post
    Welfare, Medicare and Social Security are the 3 most expensive government programs. If you really truely believe that government assistance is as cut and dry as you are trying to make it sound then you need to spend less time reading liberal news stories and take a trip through a trailer park.

    Stop ignoring the glaringly obvious facts just to support your argument. If it is true that 1% of our population is on some kind of welfare yet that 1% accounts for 1 out of every 7 tax dollars, then there is serious problem here. The rich utilize public services far less than any other group, and for you to suggest that the people pay the most and use the least pay more is downright silly.
    The rich utilize direct public assistance less, for obvious reasons, but they rely indirectly on government services far more than the poor, also for obvious reasons. If you run a company you require reliable highways and bridges. You require free trade agreements. You require a sound banking and financial system. You require reliable and plentiful power. You require patent and copyright protection. You require a strong court system to peacefully resolve disputes. You require an educated work force. Etc. None of these expensive government programs means much to a guy living on the street.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You claimed that these regs cost jobs. Now you're making another argument because you know those regs don't cost jobs
    Perhaps you could point out where I claimed these regs cost jobs......

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I believe that people shouldn't be self absorbed, materialistic, greed heads. If people ARE like that, I certainly am not jealous of them. It must suck to be you.
    What you always do is speculate about that which you do not fully understand. I learned accepting personal responsibility a long time ago. Never did I expect, like you apparently do, that someone else should give me money for personal responsibility issues. I found it much better to spend my own money locally to solve social problems is obviously conflicts with your believe that it is ok for people to send their money to D.C. so that D.C. can give that money to you.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Who said anything about buying products? Can you try to stay on topic?
    Maybe if you would focus more on all the posts on this thread than just mine, you would be able to answer that question?

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    teamosil;1059812548]Are you asking what 1/3 of our GDP is? Just under $5 trillion/year.
    Good, now name for me any group of rich that control 5 trillion of that?

    Conservatives are so naive... You assume whoever has the money automatically has some special magical right to it. Like god went around declaring how much money people would have. In reality, who has what money is largely determined by a whole series of rules we set up as a society. What tax rates we set on this and that, what sorts of costs that companies create we make them bear and what costs we let them push off on to society, what national resources we charge them for and what ones we let them use for free, what types of anti-competitive practices we allow and what ones we don't, how members of boards of directors are selected, how performance reviews are structured, what information companies need to make public and what they are allowed to keep secret, how schools are funded, how health care is paid for, etc. Yet for some reason when those rules are tweaked in a way that pushes more money to the top, you're ok with that, but when they're tweaked in ways that push more money to the rest of the people you get all upset and start talking about taking people's money away. It's some strange type of doublethink. Right now the rules are dialed pretty much all the way towards pushing money to the super rich. They've won just about every one of those battles in legislatures, board rooms, stock exchanges and in employee negotiations and at this point everything is set up to suck money out of the rest of the country and dump it in their laps. We want to turn those dials back to a more sensible, traditional, level, that's all. If they're making such great choices they'll certainly continue to do fantastically well even on a more level playing field I'm sure
    Isn't that what liberals are proposing, that my money be sent to D.C. so that politicians can send it to you?

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