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Thread: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

  1. #151
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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Do you want to return to the Industrial Revolution style of regulation and oversight?
    How about something in between?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  2. #152
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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by nijato View Post
    The proposal seems to be good politics for Obama. Instead of begining with a reasonable comprimise as he did with the debt-ceiling fiasco, this proposal is farther left. If this process is correctly viewed as a negotiation, it only makes sense to propose a partisan plan, and then walk back to the middle. Looks like it took the centerist administration 3 years to figure out a rational way to deal with a center-right congress. Say what you want of the plan, but it is something the Dems can get behind.
    I agree with you that it's a good plan. I also agree somewhat with J-mac in that this plan is very similar to what President Obama proposed to Boehner and Cantor during the buget talks AND the debt limit debates. Even more interesting is that some of the ideas proposed by the President's Debt Commission are once again part of the President's Deficit Reduction plan. But more on that in a minute...

    I think what's gotten so many Republicans in an uproar is this from the President's Deficit Reduction plan:

    Middle-class families shouldn’t pay higher taxes than millionaires and billionaires. That’s pretty straightforward. It’s hard to argue against that. Warren Buffett’s secretary shouldn’t pay a higher tax rate than Warren Buffett. There is no justification for it.

    It is wrong that in the United States of America, a teacher or a nurse or a construction worker who earns $50,000 should pay higher tax rates than somebody pulling in $50 million. Anybody who says we can’t change the tax code to correct that, anyone who has signed some pledge to protect every single tax loophole so long as they live, they should be called out. They should have to defend that unfairness -- explain why somebody who's making $50 million a year in the financial markets should be paying 15 percent on their taxes, when a teacher making $50,000 a year is paying more than that -- paying a higher rate.
    It's that part in bold that's the kicker - "explain why somebody who's making $50 million a year in the financial markets..." - in other words investors. It's not the marginal tax rate that the President is proposing to increase...atleast not immediately. It's the capital gains tax on investment income that's in question. Now, why is this important? Paraphrasing from the book, "Bad Money," by Kevin Phillips:

    In 1988, finance became the chosen sector of the U.S. economy. Product innovation, the ultimate paper entrepreneural opportunity, followed an economic policy that aimed to achieve growth by wealth creation. By 2007, the results in terms of wealth and profits were staggering. Financial services became Wall Street's new profits machine.
    It wasn't that CEOs and hedge fund managers were making profits from producing goods in the U.S. Manufacturing as a percentage of GDP has been on the decline since 1950 (pg 31) - 29.3% in 1950 to just 12% in 2005 - whereas financial services had been on a slow uptick - 10.9%, 13.6%, 14% and 15% between 1950-1980. By 1990, financial services had surpassed manufacturing and has never looked back since. So, what has this to do with taxing the rich? Only that the wealthiest among us and only the wealthy can take advantage of tax shelters that most of us can only dream of. As such, the weathy are able to hide their taxable income thereby reducing or in some cases completely eliminating their tax liability. Yes, the wealthy still pay a higher gross percentage of federal income taxes, but those who pay income taxes via their profits from (long-term) capital gains do in some cases end up paying taxes at a lower rate than the average worker.

    So, getting back to the Debt Commission's proposals (which fell only 3 votes shy of the required 14 votes of 18 votes needed before the recommendations could be submitted to Congress for debate), although their recommendations didn't specifically mention changing the capital gains tax, the Commission did recommend changing the tax code, specifically: capping taxes at 21% of GDP, eliminating the Alternative Minimum Tax and raising the earnings subject to the payroll tax to $190,000 in 2020. It is worth noting that none of the changes to the tax code except for temporarily lowering the payroll tax to 3.1% and possibly changes to the capital gains tax would go into effect until January 1, 2013 at the earliest.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 09-20-11 at 07:30 PM.

  3. #153
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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Frolicking Dinosaurs View Post
    BTW, polls show most of the youngsters are right leaning these days.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    That's not true. Young people, especially college kids are overwhelmingly liberal.
    They identify as Dem over GOP by about 20%, but if you look at their views on individual issues they lean GOP to libertarian on fiscal and government issues, but they lean left on social issues like same-sex marriage and abortion. If they're Democrats, they're old-style Southern Democrats.
    I don't want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was wedding between the religious fundamentalists and political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it. ~ Billy Graham in Parade magazine February 1, 1981.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Hasn't that money that is invested been taxes already? How many times should income be taxed?
    Every time it changes hands

    We dont tax money. We tax transactions
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  5. #155
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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    I'll give you two that I'm familiar with:

    1. Safety harnesses are now required by any roofer working more than 6' above the ground. Any one that has ever worn a safety harness will tell you that they create more of a safety hazard than by not having one. Besides, every contractor I see would hit the ground before the harness caught because they leave a lot of slack in them so they can get their work done. If it was done correctly, harnesses would be required on roofs beyond a certain roof slope such as greater than 8:12.

    2. The EPA now requires that all contractors renovating or repairing a house built before 1978 to be lead paint certified. It doesn't matter if they've tested the paint and found that it does not contain lead. They still have to send their men to an 8 hour course that costs $300 a person. Another way to increase the cost of doing business.
    #1 will create jobs for the people who make safety harnesses and will not cost any jobs

    #2 won't cost any jobs ($300/employee is a minimal expense) and will prevent fraud that can kill people. Lead is highly toxic

    If those are the best you can come up with, it looks like the rightwing is just whining again about hobgoblins
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  6. #156
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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    I should have known better than to post a serious reply to a partisan hack that has no knowledge of how business works.

    You're dismissed.
    Translation: Gill cant show how this two regulations have any significant effect on jobs or business
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  7. #157
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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    since you've never worn a safety harness, I wouldn't expect a serious answer from you. It's very hard to walk around with one on.

    My point was that the regulations are useless. No roofing contractor wears a safety harness that would actually prevent him from being injured, they only wear it so that the OSHA inspector won't fine them. What good does that do.
    You claimed that these regs cost jobs. Now you're making another argument because you know those regs don't cost jobs
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    19 Different Polls Show That Americans Support Tax Increases To Cut Deficit


    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/17/us...1&pagewanted=2



    http://s3.documentcloud.org/document...ll-results.pdf
    According to the poll, large majorities support increased spending to create jobs


    Large majority supports increasing taxes on those making more than 250K
    The majority of people are also stupid and are basing their opinions off of little or no actual facts.

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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokified View Post
    The majority of people are also stupid and are basing their opinions off of little or no actual facts.
    That argument sounds very self-referential
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  10. #160
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    Re: Obama to propose $1.5 trillion in new tax revenue

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokified View Post
    The majority of people are also stupid and are basing their opinions off of little or no actual facts.
    Well, then it's a good thing we have politicians to tell us what to do ain't it?


    Most people are of average intelligence.

    Except people on the internet. The typical internet user has an IQ of 147 and a 9 inch penis. Present company included.
    source: http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/numbers.png
    I may be wrong.

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