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Thread: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

  1. #81
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Why does the govt. need more revenue? Seems to me that you are justifying the size of the govt. as it is? Here are the line items in the budget, how many are duplicated at the state level thus not needed at the Federal Level? I believe we have a spending problem not a revenue problem. Too many ignore that it is the income earner's money first and doesn't belong to the govt.

    Expenses

    Defense 696.1
    International Affairs 45.2
    Gen. Science, Space 30.9
    Energy 11.5
    Natural resources/env 41,6
    Agriculture 23.2
    Commerce -82.9
    Transportation 92.5
    Community Dev 24.9
    Education/Train/Social 125.1
    Health 369.0
    Medicare 451.6
    Income Security 624.0
    Social Security 706.7
    Veterans Benefits 108.4
    Justice 55.2
    General Govt. 18.1
    Net Interest 196.9


    Total 3496.4


    First thing that has to be done is take SS and Medicare out of the budget completely and apply FICA taxes to those items. that reduces the amount of revenue needed down to 2.3 trillion from income taxes, corporate taxes, and excise taxes.. then cut out the categories duplicated at the state level, education, energy, environmental, commerce, agriculture, etc and you have a budget of about 1.5 trillion dollars. Put 25 million people back to work paying taxes and the reduce foreign aid for illegal immigration health care.
    the dems need more money to buy the votes of their constituents. that is why they want tax hikes. So they can tell their voters that all the goodies the voters want will be paid for by the rich

    that is why

    its why the ass in chief cannot just agree to spending cuts. REAL COMPROMISE means the GOP agrees to a trillion of cuts to the programs they like such as the military and the dems agree to a trillion cuts of the stuff they like such as handouts to unions and their voters



  2. #82
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    Some cliche'. This is the first time I've seen such a statement.




    accusing folks who want to raise the tax-rate on the wealthy to pre-Bush levels, of being "envious", is also becoming a bit of a cliche'.
    I really don't care if I use the same term over and over as long as it is accurate and it is



  3. #83
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I don't care what you are, giving the government more wealth is anathema to true libertarians. Since you don't claim to be a libertarian your rant really has no relevance to my critique of someone who claims to be a libertarian but wants more class warfare based tax increases
    Sorry TD, we simply cannot pass the buck any longer. Starve the beast failed when we ran consistent deficits during periods of economic growth; now is time to pay the piper. Hindering economic activity will not solve the problem.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  4. #84
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you claim treating LTCG or dividends (which are taxed twice before the shareholder gets them) at different rates is the Government playing God but it doesn't do that when it taxes those of us who pay most of the income taxes at higher rates than those who tend to live off the government
    You are confusing several different issues and attempting to use one to justify the others which is fallacious.

    1) Capital gains rates have nothing at all to do with anyone living off the government. They are two separate things and one is irrelevant to the merits of the other.
    2) Corporations are persons under the law. As such they pay taxes. Individual human beings are persons under the law. As such they pay taxes. Those are two different things and not double taxation from the same payer.
    3) Who pays most of the taxes and at what rates is irrelevant to the fact that all income should be taxed as what it actuall is - income and the government should not play god and decide which source of income should be given discriminatory treatment with more favorable rates.
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  5. #85
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Sorry TD, we simply cannot pass the buck any longer. Starve the beast failed when we ran consistent deficits during periods of economic growth; now is time to pay the piper. Hindering economic activity will not solve the problem.
    its easy to say that when its only a few percentage points of the citizens who are expected to pay the buck

    Its time for those who have been subsidized by others to either give up all the goodies they expect from others, or step up and start paying for what they demand



  6. #86
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You are confusing several different issues and attempting to use one to justify the others which is fallacious.

    1) Capital gains rates have nothing at all to do with anyone living off the government. They are two separate things and one is irrelevant to the merits of the other.
    2) Corporations are persons under the law. As such they pay taxes. Individual human beings are persons under the law. As such they pay taxes. Those are two different things and not double taxation from the same payer.
    3) Who pays most of the taxes and at what rates is irrelevant to the fact that all income should be taxed as what it actuall is - income and the government should not play god and decide which source of income should be given discriminatory treatment with more favorable rates.
    the only confusion is your inability to understand or concede that there are sound economic reasons for having lower rates on LTCG or dividends. Your whining that the richest 1/100th of one percent have mostly those types of income is not a sound basis for increasing the rates so you can slake your dislike of the uber rich



  7. #87
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    a flat tax is not regressive. the rich pay more than the poor.

    " * Flat rate taxes are no longer progressive (at least as far as the 'marginal' rates are concerned) and so the distribution of income will become more unequal – certainly in the short and medium term.

    * Flat rate taxes tend to favour the wealthy at the expense of the poor because the wealthy are no longer taxed at high rates on their savings, their dividend incomes and their inheritance wealth.

    * Flat taxes can form part of a “race to the bottom” with governments competing with each other to offer the lowest rates of tax to entice inward investment and skilled workers. The result is a widening gap between the wealthy and the poor and less revenue for the government to commit to social welfare spending.

    * There is no guarantee that people will look to work more if tax rates are lower, indeed some people may choose to work less because they can earn the same income from working fewer hours.

    * There is no guarantee that businesses will engage in more investment and R&D if company taxes are lower – they may simply offer more in the way of dividends to their shareholders!

    * Tax reforms such as flat taxes are not the only key factor in determining flows of foreign investment around the world economy. John Chambers CEO of Cisco Systems has been quoted as saying that “Jobs are going to go where the best-educated workforce is with the most competitive infrastructure and environment for creativity and supportive government.” In addition people living in those respective countries do not want to see a reduction in spending on their services at the benefit of reduced taxation."

    "Examples of countries that have moved towards flat rate tax systems include Estonia, Latvia, Poland, Lithuania, Russia, Slovakia and most recently, Hungary."
    http://tutor2u.net/economics/revisio...-taxation.html

    Edit: corrected link
    Last edited by Catawba; 09-19-11 at 09:59 PM.
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the only confusion is your inability to understand or concede that there are sound economic reasons for having lower rates on LTCG or dividends. Your whining that the richest 1/100th of one percent have mostly those types of income is not a sound basis for increasing the rates so you can slake your dislike of the uber rich
    Why do you have to insult me by claiming that I do not understand? A person can fully understand but yet disagree with your stance on these matters.

    Secondly, your repeated use of the term WHINING is an insult. You should stop it.
    __________________________________________________ _
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    its easy to say that when its only a few percentage points of the citizens who are expected to pay the buck
    No, it is simply good economics.

    Its time for those who have been subsidized by others to either give up all the goodies they expect from others, or step up and start paying for what they demand
    This has been addressed previously; hindering economic activity (at this stage) is simply not an option. You are about 11 years too late to be calling for such policies.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  10. #90
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    another faux libertarian. GIve the government more money is a socialist or statist attitude
    Its a FACT. They are under paying Mr. Turtle.
    CORPORATE GREED AND UNION GREED
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