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White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

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EarlzP;1059859630]Word play nothing more nothing less, provide me with one source proving that President Obama ever laid the blame for any thing on his administrative staff, just one.
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Obama blames everyone else but himself or his Administration but that wasn't the point. The debate was delegation of responsibility and no good manager can or will do that

I started in management at 17, no college not even a HS Diploma.
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Good for you, did you ever delegate responsibility?



Your denial about the effects of speculators on the poor and elderly is beyond belief, since you don't deny profiting from speculating on life essential needs I under stand your anger at the OWS demonstrators. Your fear of liberals is very evident, do you want to talk about it? Are their any republicans or libertarians or independents demonstrating if you answer is no, please provide a source. If your answer is yes can you explain why they are there?
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Not denial, just realization that liberalism is a bigger problem than speculators. Millions and millions of speculators have experienced nothing negative from speculators but all Americans are paying the price for liberalism.


Are you sure?
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Yep, pretty sure unless it is a professional protest organization looking for recruits.



Even if you were right I think you may be about 11 years late, let me ask you some thing are there enough liberals in the USA to elect a President? If your answer is no and as you said you believe in taking responsibility for your actions do you think that maybe some of the responsibility may cross party lines? If your answer is yes why do you only malign liberals?
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There are enough liberals to elect a President when only about 50% of the available electorate actually votes. My vote is irrelevant in a Presidential election because I live in TX, a bright red state. Problem is Obama did a very good job marketing his "Hope and Change" message and that convinced a lot of people to vote for him. The problem was his "hope and change" message meant something entirely different to this Center Right country.
 
winston53660 said:
So the private sector doesn't create jobs?
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Not the ones we have been giving the tax breaks to for the last decade apparently. Who is it that came up with the hair brained idea of giving someone who is rich a tax break, simply because of the fact they are rich, with absolutely no obligation to create jobs in this country???

Its easy to understand why protest has expanded from NY now to 25 cities!
 
Catawba said:
Not the ones we have been giving the tax breaks to for the last decade apparently. Who is it that came up with the hair brained idea of giving someone who is rich a tax break, simply because of the fact they are rich, with absolutely no obligation to create jobs in this country???

Its easy to understand why protest has expanded from NY now to 25 cities!
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The private sector needs to make profits though. How can we expect them to do their job of making profit without providing them tax breaks?
 
vvx said:
The private sector needs to make profits though. How can we expect them to do their job of making profit without providing them tax breaks?
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Is this meant to be sarcastic? If those profits are invested in overseas investments rather than jobs here at home, I fail to see how that works out for the benefit of the majority of citizens.
 
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Conservative said:
That is measured by the misery index
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The misery index is the sum of unemployment and inflation; it in no way measures the severity of an economic downturn. This should be intuitive because the misery index of various data points throughout the 1930's would have been less than peak years (1973 & 1980). It treats deflation as a good thing!

The parallels between our current economic reality and that of the great depression need to be taken into consideration before you can make such a generic determination.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
It treats deflation as a good thing!
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Don't expect Conservative to understand that, he thinks inflation is an economic indicator. According to him, the economy was just rosey when Obama took over since the inflation rate was close to zero percent.

:roll:
 
Conservative said:
Obama blames everyone else but himself or his Administration but that wasn't the point. The debate was delegation of responsibility and no good manager can or will do that
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President Obama must have taken Management 101 he is only delegating responsibility, I learned when trouble shooting the first thing you have to do is identify the problem until you do that finding a long lasting solution is next to impossible, the problem I see is the republican party the solution will happen in 2012, when you have a republican leader Mitch McConnel who states that the number one priority is to defeat the President the problem is evident, when the majority leader takes a pledge to refuse to negotiate the problem is evident the solution is to remove him, when representatives of the people take a pledge to refuse to negotiate the solution is to remove them

Good for you, did you ever delegate responsibility?
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I not only invented the team concept I knew how to use it, from our conversations I can tell you are clueless from the way that elected republicans act I can tell they went to the same Management 101 classes you did.

Not denial, just realization that liberalism is a bigger problem than speculators. Millions and millions of speculators have experienced nothing negative from speculators but all Americans are paying the price for liberalism.
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Maybe you and I are finally starting to find some common ground, I agree millions and millions of speculators have experienced nothing negative from other speculators, but every American even you are paying the price for unregulated speculation, We pay every time we pull up to the pump, every time we eat, every time we turn up our heat, every time we flip on a light switch, we can't take a dump and flush it without having some speculator profit from it

Yep, pretty sure unless it is a professional protest organization looking for recruits.
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So now you think that the OWS demonstrators are a professional organization looking for recruits? Let me know who their backers are you have the Koch Brothers backing and running the Tea Baggers, name the billionaires backing the OWS demonstrations

There are enough liberals to elect a President when only about 50% of the available electorate actually votes. My vote is irrelevant in a Presidential election because I live in TX, a bright red state. Problem is Obama did a very good job marketing his "Hope and Change" message and that convinced a lot of people to vote for him. The problem was his "hope and change" message meant something entirely different to this Center Right country.
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Do you think this is why the republican party is trying to legislate the election, have they finally realized that they do not have the ability to get voters to the voters booths so instead they are going to try to keep those who do show up to vote away from the voters booth. So are you saying that the center right was brain washed?
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Private sector workers are slowly being overwhelmed by government made jobs, though. The majority of jobs government makes, are government jobs. You want to see an example of what allowing government to take over the economy looks like, look at the north east. I mean, look at CT. Our entire economy revolves around government jobs. We build submarines, Black hawks, F22s, and various other military only equipment. All of the people who build these devices are union, and they make, starting out, a minimum 25 dollars an hour. No degree, no experience, and no real skills needed...if you want the job, though, your family has to work there, in some capacity. Or friends. Something. You have to have an "in". These are the kind of jobs our government creates, more often than not. Now, what happens when the majority of the REST of america doesn't make 25 an hour, or, after a couple years on the job, 30+ an hour? What happens when the weight of pay scales tips towards government jobs? Why, you end up with not enough taxes to fund them, of course. So, sitting by, looking for uncle sam to make jobs is nothing short of tragic for this country. This best thing our government can do to create jobs, is to do all they can to help small business growth. And the best thing to help small business growth is to reduce market entry barriers. Most of those come in the form of over regulation.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
The misery index is the sum of unemployment and inflation; it in no way measures the severity of an economic downturn. This should be intuitive because the misery index of various data points throughout the 1930's would have been less than peak years (1973 & 1980). It treats deflation as a good thing!

The parallels between our current economic reality and that of the great depression need to be taken into consideration before you can make such a generic determination.
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The misery index measures individual pain and suffering whether you like it or not. Obama has a 38% JAR today which tells you how they feel. Sorry but how people feel is affected by the Obama economic policy and that misery index is rising. During the Reagan years that misery index dropped. That misery index was a lot lower when Obama took office than it is today and it was much lower than when Reagan took office. What drove that misery index in the early 80's was high inflation and rising unemployment and extremely high interest rates. When Obama took office there were little inflation, very low interest rates, but today there is rising unemployment which isn't even calculated the same today as it was when Reagan was in office.
 
Conservative said:
The misery index measures individual pain and suffering whether you like it or not. Obama has a 38% JAR today which tells you how they feel. Sorry but how people feel is affected by the Obama economic policy and that misery index is rising. During the Reagan years that misery index dropped. That misery index was a lot lower when Obama took office than it is today and it was much lower than when Reagan took office. What drove that misery index in the early 80's was high inflation and rising unemployment and extremely high interest rates. When Obama took office there were little inflation, very low interest rates, but today there is rising unemployment which isn't even calculated the same today as it was when Reagan was in office.
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This ignores the HoR and Senate approval rating, which last time I checked, was at 11%. Could it possibly be the ignorance of Americans jumping on the Fox News band wagon to blame Obama?
 
EarlzP said:
President Obama must have taken Management 101 he is only delegating responsibility, I learned when trouble shooting the first thing you have to do is identify the problem until you do that finding a long lasting solution is next to impossible, the problem I see is the republican party the solution will happen in 2012, when you have a republican leader Mitch McConnel who states that the number one priority is to defeat the President the problem is evident, when the majority leader takes a pledge to refuse to negotiate the problem is evident the solution is to remove him, when representatives of the people take a pledge to refuse to negotiate the solution is to remove them



I not only invented the team concept I knew how to use it, from our conversations I can tell you are clueless from the way that elected republicans act I can tell they went to the same Management 101 classes you did.



Maybe you and I are finally starting to find some common ground, I agree millions and millions of speculators have experienced nothing negative from other speculators, but every American even you are paying the price for unregulated speculation, We pay every time we pull up to the pump, every time we eat, every time we turn up our heat, every time we flip on a light switch, we can't take a dump and flush it without having some speculator profit from it



So now you think that the OWS demonstrators are a professional organization looking for recruits? Let me know who their backers are you have the Koch Brothers backing and running the Tea Baggers, name the billionaires backing the OWS demonstrations



Do you think this is why the republican party is trying to legislate the election, have they finally realized that they do not have the ability to get voters to the voters booths so instead they are going to try to keep those who do show up to vote away from the voters booth. So are you saying that the center right was brain washed?
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It really is hard dealing with someone brainwashed, let me try this again by shouting, A GOOD MANAGER CANNOT NEVER DELEGATE RESPONSIBILITY BUT CAN DELEGATE AUTHORITY. There is a difference between what a manager makes and the person working for that manager and it has everything to do with responsibility. Suggest you learn the difference.

The rest of your argument is bogus and typical of someone with a slanted biased view of the economy and this country. It doesn't serve any purpose to continue this with you. I believe in individual freedoms, individual responsibility, and individual wealth creation. Not sure what you believe in other than placing blame on someone else for their individual failures.
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Jryan said:
This ignores the HoR and Senate approval rating, which last time I checked, was at 11%. Could it possibly be the ignorance of Americans jumping on the Fox News band wagon to blame Obama?
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Please tell me what affect your vote or approval rating of my Congressional Representative has no the election? Could it be that the Congressional Approval ratings are manufactured to divert from the Obama record? Why are you ignoring that record?
 
Conservative said:
Please tell me what affect your vote or approval rating of my Congressional Representative has no the election? Could it be that the Congressional Approval ratings are manufactured to divert from the Obama record? Why are you ignoring that record?
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A diversion, excuse me? I saw that data on Fox News, and I know you trust fox news. What would motivate FNC to lie about that? Nothing because they would want to lie to make it higher. You are either mad at Obama or the senate, I'm mad at the sentate for these reasons: They have gotten NOTHING done, they are over payed, they want to decrease wages of others before themselves, they are thieves, and all do not deserve a job in our senate/HoR. I'll probably stand alone on that one though.
 
Jryan said:
A diversion, excuse me? I saw that data on Fox News, and I know you trust fox news. What would motivate FNC to lie about that? Nothing because they would want to lie to make it higher. You are either mad at Obama or the senate, I'm mad at the sentate for these reasons: They have gotten NOTHING done, they are over payed, they want to decrease wages of others before themselves, they are thieves, and all do not deserve a job in our senate/HoR. I'll probably stand alone on that one though.
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That poll is irrelevant and you know it. Think about it and get back to me.

The results of Obama's are what they are, 2 1/2 years later. No President in modern history had the overwhelming control of Congress that Obama had when he took office and the results we have today are worse than when he took office? I do agree with you however regarding the Senate.
 
Jryan said:
I was beginning to think you didn't know how to type that :).
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When you say something that I agree with I will say so. My bet is there is a lot that I post that you agree with too or would if you had any more experience in the real world. Much of what you post today will change as you get older and wiser. I had similar views to you at your age but grew out of it after I finally looked at the results of liberalism.
 
Conservative said:
The misery index measures individual pain and suffering whether you like it or not. Obama has a 38% JAR today which tells you how they feel. Sorry but how people feel is affected by the Obama economic policy and that misery index is rising. During the Reagan years that misery index dropped. That misery index was a lot lower when Obama took office than it is today and it was much lower than when Reagan took office. What drove that misery index in the early 80's was high inflation and rising unemployment and extremely high interest rates. When Obama took office there were little inflation, very low interest rates, but today there is rising unemployment which isn't even calculated the same today as it was when Reagan was in office.
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As Goldenboy most eloquently pointed out, according to you, if we had 4% deflation, the misery index would be down to 5%, lower than it had been in more than half a century, and it would signal a strong economy.

Inflation is not in indicator of the economy. It's sad that you don't know that while claiming to be superior to all others in business. Case in point, the economy was wrecked in January, 2009 -- the inflation rate was .03%. What did the inflation rate there indicate about the economy? In January, 1981, the economy was in pretty bad shape -- the inflation rate was 13.9%. What did the inflation rate there indicate about the economy?
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
As Goldenboy most eloquently pointed out, according to you, if we had 4% deflation, the misery index would be down to 5%, lower than it had been in more than half a century, and it would signal a strong economy.

Inflation is not in indicator of the economy. It's sad that you don't know that while claiming to be superior to all others in business. Case in point, the economy was wrecked in January, 2009 -- the inflation rate was .03%. What did the inflation rate there indicate about the economy? In January, 1981, the economy was in pretty bad shape -- the inflation rate was 13.9%. What did the inflation rate there indicate about the economy?
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If you have to ask how the misery index affects individuals that tells me how out of touch with reality you really are. High inflation, High unemployment, High interest rates impact all aspects of individual lives and drives individual actions and activities. Most intellectual elites always use statistics while ignoring human behavior and activity.
 
Conservative said:
If you have to ask how the misery index affects individuals that tells me how out of touch with reality you really are. High inflation, High unemployment, High interest rates impact all aspects of individual lives and drives individual actions and activities. Most intellectual elites always use statistics while ignoring human behavior and activity.
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Wow, it's as if you really don't have a clue that inflation is not an economic indicator. How else can one translate that diatribe?

And I also highlight how you completely avoided answering my questions in the process. Let's try again, shall we ...

The economy was wrecked in January, 2009 -- the inflation rate was .03%. What did the inflation rate there indicate about the economy? In January, 1981, the economy was in pretty bad shape -- the inflation rate was 13.9%. What did the inflation rate there indicate about the economy?
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
Wow, it's as if you really don't have a clue that inflation is not an economic indicator. How else can one translate that diatribe?

And I also highlight how you completely avoided answering my questions in the process. Let's try again, shall we ...

The economy was wrecked in January, 2009 -- the inflation rate was .03%. What did the inflation rate there indicate about the economy? In January, 1981, the economy was in pretty bad shape -- the inflation rate was 13.9%. What did the inflation rate there indicate about the economy?
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What you fail to recognize is that we are over 2 1/2 years into the Obama Presidency who with OVERWHELMING numbers in the Congress generated the results I have posted and you have ignored. You can claim the economy was a wreck when he took office but you ignore his influence and the Congress influence on that economy blaming everything on GW Bush. All that does is divert from reality today and the 38% JAR of Obama. Only a true liberal believer ignores results and believes that more liberalism which created the problem is better to solve the problem. I doubt seriously that you know how the private sector works which makes you part of the 38% that continues to support Obama.

What I see from people like you is total ignorance about human behavior and what affects individual economics. Inflation affects individual buying power, High interest rates affect credit cards, home mortgages, auto loans, and high unemployment affects personal income. All those were high or rising when Reagan took office. Unemployment was rising when Obama took office but interest rates and inflation were low making the 81-82 individual more damaging to the individual.

The issue though is not 2009, the issue is today and the results today show that "your" President is a disaster. 38% still believe and drink the kool-aid, guess we know where you stand.
 
TurtleDude said:
You do understand corporations exist to make profits not to provide jobs?
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then WTF should we be giving them special tax-rates and rights of personhood?

if corporations are not going to even attempt to work towards the greater good of our society ALONG with making money, then **** them.
 
Thunder said:
then WTF should we be giving them special tax-rates and rights of personhood?

if corporations are not going to even attempt to work towards the greater good of our society ALONG with making money, then **** them.
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explain your knowledge of "rights of personhood"
 
Thunder said:
do corporations have some of the rights that people do? yes, yes they do.

this is a disgrace and should be undone.
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explain what rights they have and why that is detrimental to the lowest common denominator society you crave
 
Thunder said:
then WTF should we be giving them special tax-rates and rights of personhood?

if corporations are not going to even attempt to work towards the greater good of our society ALONG with making money, then **** them.
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Exactly. It is exactly because of the exclusions from taxes, and legal exceptions made for them, that allow corporations to exist in the first place. Without these laws, such large businesses would quickly find themselves non competitive with smaller, less wasteful, more agile businesses. Politicians like to grant these things to corporations, one, because they are funded by them, but two, because corporations employ more people, and, due to their size, require more positions in beurocracy than small businesses do, again, helping those employment numbers. The larger a company gets, the more unnecessary (to a small business) employees they have to employ. Therefore, someone running on a platform of employment, would be behooved to do what it takes to allow businesses in the area to grow as large a possible.
 
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