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Thread: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    These numbers come from BLS data. Notice all those jobs lost before the Bush recession was officially over in June 2009.


    Private sector jobs gains/losses

    Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
    2008 Gains/
    Loss
    4 -128 -87 -186 -240 -217 -265 -317 -434 -491 -787 -636
    2009 Gains/
    Loss
    -841 -721 -787 -773 -326 -438 -287 -215 -213 -250 -34 -102
    2010 Gains/
    Loss
    -42 -21 144 229 48 65 93 110 109 143 128 167
    2011 Gains/
    Loss
    94 261 219 241 99 75 156 17
    Is that chart supposed to mean something? Tell that to the 25 million unemployed and under employed Americans TODAY, there is a net job loss TODAY, there are fewer people employed TODAY than when Obama took office so doubt seriously that anyone is going to take your chart seriously.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that still doesn't justify a tax that only applies to those who pay the most income tax

    if its so great why don't your dem masters try to expand it? because any politician who proposes it applies to more people will lose an election or might even eat a bullet
    WTF is a dem master? We don't have no stinking Grover Norquests if that's what you mean.


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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Is that chart supposed to mean something? Tell that to the 25 million unemployed and under employed Americans TODAY, there is a net job loss TODAY, there are fewer people employed TODAY than when Obama took office so doubt seriously that anyone is going to take your chart seriously.
    You might be correct, but many of those who lost their jobs in the shadow of the Bush presidency. And you have to remember the GOP has Romney or Perry as candidates. How does it feel to have two piss poor candidates?


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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    His salary from Berkshire Hathaway? You've seen his tax return and you know that's all the normal income he has?
    Nope. I said that is what was reported. If you find differently, good.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Why does John Kerry want higher taxes? because he thinks paying more taxes is a tradeoff he is willing to make to gain more power.
    what evidence do you have for this? how do you know he doesn't honestly believe that FIT for the wealthy is too low?

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    You might be correct, but many of those who lost their jobs in the shadow of the Bush presidency. And you have to remember the GOP has Romney or Perry as candidates. How does it feel to have two piss poor candidates?
    Yet Obama's approval rating is at record lows. As for piss poor candidates, you elected Obama so tell me how it feels? I didn't vote for the incompetent..

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    which is about one thousand times less than the salary of similarly situated executives
    there is no need to be envious of Buffett, as I'm sure he has earned all of the goodies & benefits he has.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    And yet you have totally failed to show he was lying, and had to give up on the attempt. Kinda interesting...
    Buffett is lying, and here's the proof.

    Buffett pays a percentage on the income that he earns initially (his salary). Assuming that he makes considerably more than his secretary in salary (not a giant leap in faith to realize this), he does pay a higher income tax than his secretary. Therefore, his secretary pays a lower income tax than he does. Where Buffett is perpetrating the lie and the liberals get so easily confused and swallow it hook, line and sinker, is that capital gains tax and income tax are very, very different. If his secretary was paying capital gains tax on any investments she makes, then she would be paying the same capital gains tax that he does, but would still be paying a lower income tax because she still makes less money.

    So unless Buffett is paying his secretary more money than he makes in salary, he's lying. But let's take this a little further to clear up any further misconceptions regarding capital gains (and for that matter, losses as well).

    Capital gains tax is levied when a profit is made in either the short-term or long-term. The short-term rate is the exact same rate as income tax. The long-term rate is what is lower (15% currently) than the income tax. Two things to point out here to clear up the confusion over all of this:

    1 - The money that was invested had already been taxed, so it is a risk that the person takes by investing the money.
    2 - Capital losses can only be claimed at a maximum of $3,000 per household per year on their taxes. So if a person loses $100,000 in investments, they only get to claim $3,000 worth of it. The other $97,000 is just gone (poof).

    So those who pay long-term capital gains tax on profits (remember, they pay the exact same percentage on short-term capital gains as they do for income tax) are being taxed on money they invested at a substantial risk. If they make money, Obama wants more of it. If they lose money, so sorry, have a nice day.

    So unless Buffett is paying his secretary more than he is paying himself in salary (highly unlikely), he's lying - plain and simple. Investors take a risk when they invest, some win and some lose. Buffett has a better record than most when it comes to winning, but it doesn't change the fact that he's lying and so many left-of-center folks are buying it blindly.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    If he was talking about ordinary income and tax rates he was a liar. If he was talking about capital gains only then he was telling something that may be close to the truth but we have no idea since we don't know what his secretary makes. Capital gains tax is 15%
    Warren Buffet was definitely talking about the capital gains tax rate. His op-ed letter in the NY times really is not that long, it's not like reading a couple thousand page bill. He's comparing his overall tax rate to the 20 other employees in his office. As he explains, his tax rate is lower because of the capital gains tax, and because FICA only applies to earned income.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/op...uper-rich.html

    "To understand why, you need to examine the sources of government revenue. Last year about 80 percent of these revenues came from personal income taxes and payroll taxes. The mega-rich pay income taxes at a rate of 15 percent on most of their earnings but pay practically nothing in payroll taxes. Itís a different story for the middle class: typically, they fall into the 15 percent and 25 percent income tax brackets, and then are hit with heavy payroll taxes to boot."

    I don't understand why everyone tries to pretend Warren Buffet is making some vague undefined argument.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh_Akston View Post
    Buffett is lying, and here's the proof.

    Buffett pays a percentage on the income that he earns initially (his salary). Assuming that he makes considerably more than his secretary in salary (not a giant leap in faith to realize this), he does pay a higher income tax than his secretary. Therefore, his secretary pays a lower income tax than he does. Where Buffett is perpetrating the lie and the liberals get so easily confused and swallow it hook, line and sinker, is that capital gains tax and income tax are very, very different. If his secretary was paying capital gains tax on any investments she makes, then she would be paying the same capital gains tax that he does, but would still be paying a lower income tax because she still makes less money.
    Semantics. Are capital gains income? Is the capital gains tax charged on that income? So it's a tax, and it's charged on income. Sounds like an income tax.

    So unless Buffett is paying his secretary more money than he makes in salary, he's lying. But let's take this a little further to clear up any further misconceptions regarding capital gains (and for that matter, losses as well).

    Capital gains tax is levied when a profit is made in either the short-term or long-term. The short-term rate is the exact same rate as income tax. The long-term rate is what is lower (15% currently) than the income tax. Two things to point out here to clear up the confusion over all of this:

    1 - The money that was invested had already been taxed, so it is a risk that the person takes by investing the money.
    2 - Capital losses can only be claimed at a maximum of $3,000 per household per year on their taxes. So if a person loses $100,000 in investments, they only get to claim $3,000 worth of it. The other $97,000 is just gone (poof).
    Poof? Not poof. The $97,000 is not just gone, it doesn't vanish. If that same person makes $100,000 in capital gains the following year, they're only going to pay tax on $3,000 of them. Because they can apply the $97,000 loss they couldn't use on the prior year return against those capital gains.

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