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Thread: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

  1. #2011
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    It's very hard to sue a corporation because the owners of said corporation are allowed to not have their personal funds tied to the business. If the assets of the sole proprietorship or partnership cannot satisfy the debt, creditors can go after each owner's personal bank account, house, etc. to make up the difference. On the other hand, if a corporation runs out of funds, its owners are usually not liable. Meaning, the owner has minimized risk in the actual business itself, anymore, other than the business itself. Trying to sue someone who can drag out court processes for years because they, personally, are not affect, is very hard to do. Now, with today's internet and such, many just settled, but that is a fairly recent development.


    Earnings from a sole proprietorship are subject to self-employment taxes, which are currently a combined 13.3% on the first $106,800 of income. With a corporation, only salaries (and not profits) are subject to such taxes. This can save you thousands of dollars per year. This is a HUGE tax break, designed to help big businesses get bigger. It's just one way they have a an unfair competitive advantage over all other businesses.

    A corporation has many avenues to raise capital. It can sell shares of stock and create new types of stock, such as preferred stock, with different voting or profit characteristics. Plus, investors can rest assured knowing they are not personally liable for corporate debts. It is this that helped bring about the economic crisis we are currently in. A separation from personal risk and potential profit.

    Becoming incorporated is something any business can do once they reach a certain size, but it's not cheap.
    It is very easy to sue a corporation as I know first hand. Would love to continue this but this thread is about to be closed.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    It's best to keep them all out, because who is to say what is "bad" and what is "good"? Way to subjective and prone to corruption and crony-ism.
    Hang on....Are not 'Lobbyists' per se, just people redressing their representatives of their grievances? And is that not exactly constitutional?

    j-mac
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The misery index measures individual pain and suffering whether you like it or not. Obama has a 38% JAR today which tells you how they feel. Sorry but how people feel is affected by the Obama economic policy and that misery index is rising. During the Reagan years that misery index dropped. That misery index was a lot lower when Obama took office than it is today and it was much lower than when Reagan took office. What drove that misery index in the early 80's was high inflation and rising unemployment and extremely high interest rates. When Obama took office there were little inflation, very low interest rates, but today there is rising unemployment which isn't even calculated the same today as it was when Reagan was in office.
    The misery index is the sum of unemployment and inflation; that is it. None the less, the "misery index" is known to underweight the misery caused by joblessness.

    the estimates suggest that people would trade off a 1-percentage-point increase in the unemployment rate for a 1.7-percentage-point increase in the inflation rate. Hence, according to these findings, the famous misery index W(π +U) under-weighs the unhappiness caused by joblessness.
    source

    You might want to find another argument; because the one used to prove that the current economic downturn is not as serious as previous downturns since 1945 is sheer nonsense.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    The misery index is the sum of unemployment and inflation; that is it. None the less, the "misery index" is known to underweight the misery caused by joblessness.



    source
    Exactly, both impacting the individual financial conditions of every American. High inflation, rising unemployment plus the added pressure of high interest rates(a product of inflation) made the 81-82 recession worse for the American people than the 2007-2009 recession. That is reality and that is why the JAR of Obama is now below 40%. Again, you need to get your nose out of the books and get out into the real world. How do you explain the Obama approval rating this low and let me know when Reagan's ever got that low?

    What you also ignore is that Obama had overwhelming Control of Congress his first two years and yet made the problem worse. How long before you hold Obama accountable for his failures?

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    The misery index is the sum of unemployment and inflation; that is it. None the less, the "misery index" is known to underweight the misery caused by joblessness.



    source

    You might want to find another argument; because the one used to prove that the current economic downturn is not as serious as previous downturns since 1945 is sheer nonsense.
    Unless you weigh in the fact that inflation is being artificially suppressed right now through the printing of worthless money, and deflating the dollar dangerously. Good plan, I don't think it worked in the past though....

    j-mac
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Hang on....Are not 'Lobbyists' per se, just people redressing their representatives of their grievances? And is that not exactly constitutional?

    j-mac
    Lobbyist's are paid representatives who represent (primarily) corporations or interest groups which a specific political agenda. I don't necessarily have a problem with their existence, but where I take issue is where they (for lack of a better word) bribe elected public officials and influence them towards a specific goal that is primarily beneficial to their paid bosses. This bribery can take many non-monetary forms. And no, it's not in the Constitution as such --- to make that claim would be to twist the meaning of the 1st amendment beyond recognition. Lobbyists can exist and even involve government but not where they bend the rules and laws and where all involved are encouraged to cover it up. It's inherently corrupt, breeds corruption and is another function of government that keeps the government from being transparent with the people they represent. Since good and bad lobbyists cannot be discerned and because there is an inherent corruption that goes along with it, all lobbyists should be banned from operating within the government as such, all former lobbyists including their family members, should be exempt from ever holding a Federal position (IMHO) such that the optics of such influence.

    We (the people) are better off without lobbyists in the Federal government. If lobbyists want to bring a set of grievances to the government, there are existing methods of doing such a thing - they do not need special access to Congress or the White House.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Unless you weigh in the fact that inflation is being artificially suppressed right now through the printing of worthless money, and deflating the dollar dangerously. Good plan, I don't think it worked in the past though....

    j-mac
    I believe Goldenboy is missing the point, we have 140 million working Americans today that are better off than the working Americans were in 1981-82 because of low inflation and low interest rates. Unemployed are always going to be worse off regardless of the recession severity although their unemployment compensation is going further today than it did in the 81-82 recession. He is missing that reality.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Exactly, both impacting the individual financial conditions of every American. High inflation, rising unemployment plus the added pressure of high interest rates(a product of inflation) made the 81-82 recession worse for the American people than the 2007-2009 recession.
    No it did not. You have to at least support your position with something of substance; stating that "people were thowing keys at the banks" and "17.5% interest rates on mortgages" does not accomplish this objective due in part to inaccuracy and misunderstanding of the mortgage process.

    What you also ignore is that Obama had overwhelming Control of Congress his first two years and yet made the problem worse. How long before you hold Obama accountable for his failures?
    I understand what a deleveraging cycle in excess of the Great Depression actually means. I understand that when we witness a net loss of wealth in excess of 100% U.S. GDP, there really is no silver bullet solution.

    The severity of this downturn has little if nothing to do with our current president.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Unless you weigh in the fact that inflation is being artificially suppressed right now through the printing of worthless money, and deflating the dollar dangerously. Good plan, I don't think it worked in the past though....

    j-mac
    The misery index is a bogus measure, period. I cannot even understand what you are trying to convey. Maybe another try would suffice?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  10. #2020
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Lobbyist's are paid representatives who represent (primarily) corporations or interest groups which a specific political agenda. I don't necessarily have a problem with their existence, but where I take issue is where they (for lack of a better word) bribe elected public officials and influence them towards a specific goal that is primarily beneficial to their paid bosses. This bribery can take many non-monetary forms. And no, it's not in the Constitution as such --- to make that claim would be to twist the meaning of the 1st amendment beyond recognition. Lobbyists can exist and even involve government but not where they bend the rules and laws and where all involved are encouraged to cover it up. It's inherently corrupt, breeds corruption and is another function of government that keeps the government from being transparent with the people they represent. Since good and bad lobbyists cannot be discerned and because there is an inherent corruption that goes along with it, all lobbyists should be banned from operating within the government as such, all former lobbyists including their family members, should be exempt from ever holding a Federal position (IMHO) such that the optics of such influence.

    We (the people) are better off without lobbyists in the Federal government. If lobbyists want to bring a set of grievances to the government, there are existing methods of doing such a thing - they do not need special access to Congress or the White House.
    I don't disagree with you on the level of corruption that exists in the government as it pertains to our elected officials being bought off by special interests in today's climate. However, corporations as such being made up of people, ie; the board, which answers to shareholders that invest in these companies do have interests that they would like to see protected especially in today's Obama world of destructive policy aimed at them.

    What is different say, from a corporation like say Boeing lobbying the reps on capitol hill over regulation that effects their bottom line, and say OOIDA lobbying on behalf of truckers in this country?

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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