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Thread: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

  1. #1721
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Don't recall any arrests at T.E.A. Party rallies, please post them for me then tell me exactly what the protest Wall Street rally is supposed to accomplish? What is the alternative? You want all your money going to D.C. and let them send back to you what they think you need? If you don't want to spend your money on Wall Street, don't do it. Try that with your taxes?
    It's like week 1. Why don't you wait a bit and see what the goals end up being. The Tea Party is almost in year 4. It takes time before movements either dissapate (which is possible) or form a true movement. I'm saying reserve judgement. You don't have to agree with them off the bat or be a supporter but why not wait to see what their goals are before assuming they are long haired hippies wanting a hand out.
    Why are you anti Reagan economic plan? You don't have any initiative or drive? You aren't seeking individual wealth creation?
    I think for the most part it's increased our deficits. I think for a large part it's led to a concentration of wealth to the few. Why exactly are you personalizing this, I actually work in a very good job and do very well but my problems with trickle down are the results of trickle down economics.

    Stop buying and complaining about what you are reading and think about the Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerman's of the world.
    Innovation doesn't stop with higher tax rates. This idea that Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerman only exist because of lower marginal tax rates and low capital gains tax is false. It's a good sales pitch but it isn't proven with reality. You would have to show an absence of innovation during times of high marginal tax rates for the wealthy which is not the case. I also find it interesting that you have pointed out very progressive innovators who I doubt would quit working if their tax rate went up 5% or so.
    Reagan economic policies led to the creation of 17 million jobs after a net job loss during the 81-82 recession.
    Reagan was also a very big deficit spending (Keynesian), Volcker started decreasing interests rates after finally beating inflation in 83', and oil prices dropped globally. To point to tax breaks as the reason is pretty disenginous because taxes are lower now than they were under Reagan. Clinton increased tax rates right before the boom in the 90's. You can't really claim taxes have such an effect on innovation and growth without explaining away the contradictions and other possible causes...which no one can.

    Reagan's approval ratings are extremely high today telling you what kind of job he did
    And FDR is a very popular President still 60 years after he was President. His economic policies were the polar opposite of Reagans in a lot of ways. Just because he's a popular President does not mean everything he did was perfect.

    Think instead of feeling.
    I am. You're the one with an idealized picture that doesn't meet reality. I've posted why i think the way I do.

    Do you think Reagan would be ranked as high today as he is if his policies failed as the liberals claim? Why are liberals so anti Reagan?
    Like I mentioned, it doesn't mean all his policies were perfect. He was the great communicator not the great economists. Liberals are anti-Reagan because he's the antithesis in economic policies to Liberalism. It's like asking why Libertarians are so anti-Roosevelt.

  2. #1722
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by alexxouellette View Post
    The only employed people who don't pay at least 1,000 dollars a year are those who make under twelve thousand year. They don't pay taxes because it's almost impossible to survive on 12 thousand a year anyway. Don't try to say that your number is just inaccurate. What you have proposed is a flat tax. A flat tax is without a doubt predatory to the poor. To say that everyone should be taxed the same percentage of their income is one thing but to assert that everyone should pay the exact same amount of money is ludicrous. Say everyone pays 5000 dollars which still probably wouldn't be enough. Then the man who makes 10,000 dollars a year is taxed at 50% of his income. The woman who makes 20,000 dollars a year is taxed at 25%. The college grad who comes out into the workplace at 45,000 a year with massive debts pays 11.1% a year. Finally the wall street executive making 450,000 dollars a year is taxed at 1.11% of his income. The more you make the less you pay in. The less you make the more you pay in. Even then a flat tax raises a lot less revenue than a progressive tax, if the top 20 percent possess 93% of the wealth and your taxing them at 10% or less, even if you tax 100% of the income of the bottom 80 percent you stand to raise no where near the same amount of money. It's just common sense. I've also noted that you don't understand why the wealthy should pay more. Other than for the reason I just mentioned it becomes necessary to point out that in 1945 the income tax rate for the top bracket was 91 percent. 1981-86 (your boy reagan) the effective income tax rate for the wealthiest of Americans was 50%. Point being the top tax bracket needs to stop whining.
    Are you poor? Who makes up that list of poor? You claim to be an expert on what it costs to live these days and what people spend their money on. What makes you an expert, textbooks? I am still waiting for someone to explain why Reagan is so popular today if he policies were such a failure. The top marginal rate of Reagan was 28%, not 50%. You want to pay 91% of your income to the govt? Do it and stop forcing others to do what you want to do. You actually believe people paid 91% of their income in taxes? Think about it and stop being spoon fed the liberal lies.

  3. #1723
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Here ya go, Con ... here's two links for ya ...

    The first one is the one you claim the BLS got wrong where they show an increase of 398,000 jobs for the month of September ...


    BLS: Number in thousands Employed

    The second link is to there webpage where you can easily file a complaint with them, informing them the 398,000 job increase they show for September is wrong ...

    BLS: Point of Contact for Complaints Concerning Information Quality

    ... but be warned, Con ... they are going to expect that you can rationally explain how their 398,000 figure is wrong, and personally, I just don't see how you're up to the task.
    I posted the actual BLS data, you don't like it, take it up with them. Why don't you find out what that chart represents instead of making a fool of yourself

    Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec

    2000 5708 5858 5733 5481 5758 5651 5747 5853 5625 5534 5639 5634
    2001 6023 6089 6141 6271 6226 6484 6583 7042 7142 7694 8003 8258
    2002 8182 8215 8304 8599 8399 8393 8390 8304 8251 8307 8520 8640
    2003 8520 8618 8588 8842 8957 9266 9011 8896 8921 8732 8576 8317
    2004 8370 8167 8491 8170 8212 8286 8136 7990 7927 8061 7932 7934
    2005 7784 7980 7737 7672 7651 7524 7406 7345 7553 7453 7566 7279
    2006 7059 7185 7075 7122 6977 6998 7154 7097 6853 6728 6883 6784
    2007 7085 6898 6725 6845 6765 6966 7113 7096 7200 7273 7284 7696
    2008 7628 7435 7793 7631 8397 8560 8895 9509 9569 10172 10617 11400
    2009 11919 12714 13310 13816 14518 14721 14534 14993 15159 15612 15340 15267
    2010 14837 14871 15005 15260 14973 14623 14599 14860 14767 14843 15119 14485
    2011 13863 13673 13542 13747 13914 14087 13931 13967 13992

    Discouraged workers
    2008 467 396 401 412 400 420 461 381 467 484 608 642
    2009 734 731 685 740 792 793 796 758 706 808 861 929
    2010 1065 1204 994 1197 1083 1207 1185 1110 1209 1219 1282 1318
    2011 993 1020 921 989 822 982 1119 977 1037

    Unemployed + Discouraged
    2008 8095 7831 8194 8043 8797 8980 9356 9890 10036 10656 11225 12042
    2009 12653 13445 13995 14556 15310 15514 15330 15751 15865 16420 16201 16196
    2010 15902 16075 15999 16457 16056 15830 15784 15970 15976 16062 16401 15803
    2011 14856 14693 14463 14736 14736 15069 15050 14944 15029 0 0 0

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post

    Now for the rest of the story, In Augst there were 977,000 discourage workers and this month that number was 1.037 million unemployed workers, U-6 went from 16.2% tp 16.5% and you call that an improvement. Obama loves having peeople like you around. Too bad you don't care how foolish he makes you look.
    No matter how you try to spin it -- 400,000 jobs added in September.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post

    "Your" President will go down in history making Jimmy Carter look good and Jimmy Carter is the only one smiling these days
    Jimmy Carter made George Bush look bad. Carter created 10 million jobs in 4 years compared to Bush creating 4 million jobs in 8 years.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I posted the actual BLS data, you don't like it, take it up with them. Why don't you find out what that chart represents instead of making a fool of yourself

    Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec

    2000 5708 5858 5733 5481 5758 5651 5747 5853 5625 5534 5639 5634
    2001 6023 6089 6141 6271 6226 6484 6583 7042 7142 7694 8003 8258
    2002 8182 8215 8304 8599 8399 8393 8390 8304 8251 8307 8520 8640
    2003 8520 8618 8588 8842 8957 9266 9011 8896 8921 8732 8576 8317
    2004 8370 8167 8491 8170 8212 8286 8136 7990 7927 8061 7932 7934
    2005 7784 7980 7737 7672 7651 7524 7406 7345 7553 7453 7566 7279
    2006 7059 7185 7075 7122 6977 6998 7154 7097 6853 6728 6883 6784
    2007 7085 6898 6725 6845 6765 6966 7113 7096 7200 7273 7284 7696
    2008 7628 7435 7793 7631 8397 8560 8895 9509 9569 10172 10617 11400
    2009 11919 12714 13310 13816 14518 14721 14534 14993 15159 15612 15340 15267
    2010 14837 14871 15005 15260 14973 14623 14599 14860 14767 14843 15119 14485
    2011 13863 13673 13542 13747 13914 14087 13931 13967 13992

    Discouraged workers
    2008 467 396 401 412 400 420 461 381 467 484 608 642
    2009 734 731 685 740 792 793 796 758 706 808 861 929
    2010 1065 1204 994 1197 1083 1207 1185 1110 1209 1219 1282 1318
    2011 993 1020 921 989 822 982 1119 977 1037

    Unemployed + Discouraged
    2008 8095 7831 8194 8043 8797 8980 9356 9890 10036 10656 11225 12042
    2009 12653 13445 13995 14556 15310 15514 15330 15751 15865 16420 16201 16196
    2010 15902 16075 15999 16457 16056 15830 15784 15970 15976 16062 16401 15803
    2011 14856 14693 14463 14736 14736 15069 15050 14944 15029 0 0 0
    I have no complaints with the BLS, you do. You're the one claiming 400,000 jobs were added last month despite their website showing 400,000 jobs were added.

    Now about that book you were talking about -- what is the title so I can faqct check your bogus claim?

  6. #1726
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Jimmy Carter made George Bush look bad. Carter created 10 million jobs in 4 years compared to Bush creating 4 million jobs in 8 years.
    You left out Bush destroying jobs because his policies didn't take effect until Obama was elected.

  7. #1727
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Sorry, no it isn't, no President in modern history has ever had 25 plus million unemployed and under employed. Keep spinning.
    You understand that population has an exponential effect over time, right? So the whole 25 plus million doesn't actually mean anything the percentage is what is important. Why if your concerned about the unemployed in this country do the conservatives consistently staunchly oppose policies which would help lift these people out of their trying circumstances. Instead you oppose jobs programs with the exception of the military industrial complex which produces weapons which we sell to countries who buy them with subsidies we provide them so they can use them later on their citizens and us. You support tax cuts with the wealthy by making a backwards argument where somehow the amount of money the rich can hoard in bonds and derivatives somehow affects the market demand for products and jobs. While meanwhile proposing that those who possess less than 10 percent of the nation's wealth pay more taxes. Your propagandists at fox cite inaccurate statistics that 46 % of Americans don't pay income taxes while the actual number is more like 18 % and those are the retired, unemployed, extremely underemployed, and children. I suppose that's just another conservative not being expected to be taken seriously like your whip Jon Kyl who lied on the congressional floor and thought nothing of it. I believe it was you who mentioned they gave money to the church. What would Jesus do?

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Jryan View Post

    You left out Bush destroying jobs because his policies didn't take effect until Obama was elected.
    8 million jobs were lost during the Bush Great Recession. 4 million of those occurred during the first half of 2009 which Conservatives thrive over blaming Obama for.

    Go figure

  9. #1729
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by alexxouellette View Post

    You understand that population has an exponential effect over time, right? So the whole 25 plus million doesn't actually mean anything the percentage is what is important.
    You have to understand, Conservative doesn't like percentages. Why ... ? ... because once you factor in population growth and labor force growth, the unemployment rate during Obama's first 32 months in office hasn't increased as much as it did during any Republican president going back at least as far as Herbert Hoover ...



    Nixon +77%
    Bush +45%
    Eisenhower +41%
    Ford* +36%
    GHW Bush +28%
    Reagan +23%
    Obama +17%
    Kennedy -17%
    Carter -21%
    Clinton -23%
    Johnson -33%

    * = Ford was in office 29 months

    Bureau of Labor Statistics Data
    Last edited by Sheik Yerbuti; 10-07-11 at 02:08 PM.

  10. #1730
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Are you poor? Who makes up that list of poor? You claim to be an expert on what it costs to live these days and what people spend their money on. What makes you an expert, textbooks? I am still waiting for someone to explain why Reagan is so popular today if he policies were such a failure. The top marginal rate of Reagan was 28%, not 50%. You want to pay 91% of your income to the govt? Do it and stop forcing others to do what you want to do. You actually believe people paid 91% of their income in taxes? Think about it and stop being spoon fed the liberal lies.
    I am pretty poor actually , I'm a college student working while going to school so I can pay for school. Never claimed to be an expert once just cited some statistics which is something physical, real, and helpful to understanding what we're discussing. Reagan's popular among your crowd, not mine, and he's popular because he's been lauded by certain individuals in order to reinforce certain policy decisions because as you so aptly put Reagan's tax rate was 28%, what i was mentioning was that during his first term in office the tax rate was 50%, he lowered it during his term in office and since then wealth disparity in this has grown substantially. I don't want to tax anyone at 91%, once again I never said that, but I don't think that given historical rates 39 percent is too much to ask. What exactly was the liberal lie.

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