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Thread: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

  1. #1661
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Sorry, not that simple. A company can not simply pass its taxes along to the consumer. Prices are established by supply and demand curves. People will only pay so much for a burger... your taxes go up, you can try to raise prices, but it may not work. The burger joint across the street will have a different tax scenario.. he may not be paying taxes because he is a start-up, so he has not need to raise his prices, so people go there and the first joint is forced to match the price (and thus eat all of the tax). If businesses could just set their price, they would, but they can not. Market conditions dictate price.

    There is an economic concept called the "Incidence of Tax". It deals which portion of a tax change is actually paid by the customer and which portion is absorbed by the business. The supply/demand curves dictate this allocation. If the product is highly inelastic (price increases result in more revenue as customers are not driven away with increase... gasoline is an example of this), then the tax can be passed along. On the other hand, if the product is highly elastic, then then raising prices result in so many customers not buying that the business actually has less revenue (airline tickets are generally highly elastic)..

    You can generally pass cost and tax increases along when your company deals in inelastic products, but you will generally eat the taxes if your product is elastic.
    I'm trying to simplify this concept in order to get people to understand that rising operating costs generally equals rising product costs. Please try to bare with me.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    I'm really not getting your point...you are pretty much backing up everything I have to say. I'll add, though...in addition to "the poor business man not being able to make ends meat", they were also denied by violent protest and minor revolts. Which is why the "poor" business man was no longer targeted...but the wealthy instead. I don't really care what happend in the 14th century, as might have been gleaned from the fact I asked to be versed in the history of the 16th amendment, not tax history in general. The purpose to which, to find out the real reason why the progressive tax targeted who it did.
    Oh, you want to talk about history but only the history you want to talk about. That's great, man. I love that you think I proved your point, showing your reading comprehension to be lacking. Yes, a progressive tax was proposed to fund the War of 1812 and one was implemented for the Civil War. But there were previous progressive taxes in Europe centuries before (you know, the place that almost every politician in the United States originated from). Not to mention, as I showed, the progressive tax was scrapped after the Civil War and switched to a flat tax. It was years later when the Progressive Tax was reimplemented because, as the politician said, "because none of us here have $4,000 incomes, and somebody else will have to pay the tax."

    What exactly would you take his words to mean? You want to talk history, but you only want to talk about one instance of it. That's not history, that's you pointing at one time in history emphatically and expecting others to give a ****.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Read the second link I provided for you, smart guy. The supreme court DID throw down the progressive income tax, numerous times, on account that it unfairly targets and DISCRIMINATES against a minority of people. The only reason why it eventually got through is, guess who appoints the supreme court justices? Simple matter to appoint folks who are not going to challenge the law as it's passed....and once it's been in for a while, it's VERY hard to get rid of. But of course, being the expert you are, you probably already knew all of this, right?
    Oh man. I really want you to back these statements up (especially the one about why it "got through"). Good luck.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    I'm trying to simplify this concept in order to get people to understand that rising operating costs generally equals rising product costs. Please try to bare with me.

    Ok, to be more direct, you are not correct that raising taxes means a business raises prices and the consumer pays those taxes. Income taxes are not an operating costs, rather they are costs unique to the form of the organization of a business. A business operator can not simply pass his income taxes to his customer because he wants to make more money.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 10-07-11 at 02:52 AM.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Read the second link I provided for you, smart guy. The supreme court DID throw down the progressive income tax, numerous times, on account that it unfairly targets and DISCRIMINATES against a minority of people. The only reason why it eventually got through is, guess who appoints the supreme court justices? Simple matter to appoint folks who are not going to challenge the law as it's passed....and once it's been in for a while, it's VERY hard to get rid of. But of course, being the expert you are, you probably already knew all of this, right?
    Look, income taxes have been the rule of law in this country for almost a hundred years, under both political parties, and held to be Constitutional by the Supreme Court. However, if you feel your personal interpretation trumps that of the Supreme Court, simply don't pay your income taxes and instead send the IRS a letter explaining that your interpretation of the Constitution trumps that of the Supreme Court.

    Best of luck!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Taxes were both higher for the rich and spending was lower. If we wish to reduce our debt, that is what we will have to get closer to.
    That's right. But there is no indication from this White House that they will lower spending at all. Instead BHO intends to increase it by another half a trillion dollars.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    That's right. But there is no indication from this White House that they will lower spending at all. Instead BHO intends to increase it by another half a trillion dollars.
    Obama offered $3 dollars in spending cuts for every $1 dollar of tax increases and the GOP walked away from it.
    However, there is still much pressure from both parties now to cut our most wasteful spending, our bloated military spending (that is almost as much as the rest of the world combined) and our optional wars, and to increase revenue by eliminating tax breaks for the wealthiest. The FICA cap will have to be raised to make SS solvent for the long term, and we will eventually have to go to a single payer system, as the rest of the industrialized world has done to get our health care costs under control. We see the people in the streets now demanding these things become priorities.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  8. #1668
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Do they ask if you've ever attended a protest? Are they allowed to discriminate in hiring in this way?
    No they won't ask that but they will ask questions that will determine whether or not someone supports the business they are interviewing for.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Conserv, I respect your opinion but honestly, there would be no protests if people were able to go out and find jobs. 35 years ago you could start a decent career straight from high school, if you graduated college, you had some very good prospects. Nowadays you graduate with a Masters and can't find employment. I graduated, worked at a very good Brokerage firm and did well until it went belly up. I was unemployed for about 5 months while searching for another job and (thankfully) I found one. I can completely sympathize with people just out of college unable to find work.

    I do think your perspective is totally relevant and true....35 years ago but it's a little condescending as unemployment rates among the younger age groups is much higher than the rest of the population to act like they should just go out and get a job.
    Aw, such compassion and sympathy for protesters who have no chance of getting a job acting the way they act. Ever wonder what these people actually do that they have the time to spend all day protesting something that isn't going to change a thing? Attitude and personal responsibility are everything and the only thing you are entitled to is equal opportunity, NOT equal outcome.

    People need to think about their future instead of doing simply what they want to do. Getting a graduate degree is great but not if it doesn't lead to a future job opportunity. The difference between today and 35 years ago is attitude and accepting personal responsibility then and not now. 35 years ago I aspired to be one of those evil rich people that people are jealous of and achieved that goal by hard work and dedication. Now some here want to punish that success. Why do you believe that the govt. knows what is the best way to spend personal income?

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    People need to think about their future instead of doing simply what they want to do. Getting a graduate degree is great but not if it doesn't lead to a future job opportunity. The difference between today and 35 years ago is attitude and accepting personal responsibility then and not now. 35 years ago I aspired to be one of those evil rich people that people are jealous of and achieved that goal by hard work and dedication. Now some here want to punish that success. Why do you believe that the govt. knows what is the best way to spend personal income?
    I helped you out there.

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