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Thread: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

  1. #1551
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I happen to think he has a valid point that past higher tax rates did not remove the incentives for folks to get rich and make money.
    I'd like to see one instance of somebody saying "Gee, being rich would be nice, but the taxes make me want to stay poor." Who says this? I'd think a higher income is enough incentive if that's what you're after.


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    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    How many social problems have been solved by the 14.6 TRILLION debt the govt. has generated? You think that govt. compassion is about how much money can be spent or actual results generated? Actual results generated means no longer needing govt. services.

    I don't care who controls most of the wealth, why do you? You don't seem to know or care what they do with their money and that is sad. You stereotype every rich person by the ILLEGAL actions of a few and that doesn't give you a lot of credibility. Until you know how much the rich give to charities your speculation is just that, speculation.
    I care for a very simple reason.

    There has never been, and never will be, a poor tyrant.

    And the primary activity of tyrants that negatively impacts those they tyrannize is the accumulation of wealth and power.

    Tyrants force people to work for them. In the form of rents or taxes.

    They may just want to tell others what to do, but it costs MONEY to satisfy that desire, in the form of wages to men with weapons and their overseers.

    You know, that magic formula that keeps showing up where 1-2% lead another 15-20% to exploit the other 80%.

    Everywhere that it sucks for most to live follows this model.

    I will not apologize for objecting to this country conforming to this model.

    Nor will I miss an opportunity to point this out.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    As I've previously shown, your chart did not include the effective tax rates, nor did it address the cuts that have been made since in investment returns and Estate taxes.

    If you feel that taxes for the rich were lower in the 50's and 60's, I guess that would mean you would have no problem returning to those rates, is that correct?
    Top Earners Averaged $345 Million in 2007, IRS Says
    By Ryan J. Donmoyer - Feb 18, 2010
    Top Earners Averaged $345 Million in 2007, IRS Says (Update1) - Bloomberg
    The 400 highest-earning U.S. households reported an average of $345 million in income in 2007, up 31% from a year earlier, IRS statistics show.

    The average tax Rate for the households fell to the Lowest in almost 20 years.


    The figures for 2007, the last year of an economic expansion, show that the average income reported by the top 400 earners more than doubled from $131.1 million in 2001. That year, Congress adopted tax cuts urged by then-President George W. Bush that Democrats say disproportionately benefit the wealthy.

    Each household in the top 400 of earners paid an average tax rate of 16.6%, the Lowest since the agency began tracking the data in 1992,
    the Internal Revenue Service statistics show. The top 400 paid $23 billion in taxes in 2007, up from $18 billion a year earlier, and a bigger amount than any year since 1992.

    Their average effective tax rate was about Half the 29.4% in 1993,
    the first year of President Bill Clinton’s administration, when taxes were increased. The top 400 earners reported an average of $46 million of income that year.

    Income ‘Exploded’

    The statistics underscore “two long-term trends: that income at the very top has Exploded and their taxes have been Cut dramatically,” said Chuck Marr, director of federal tax policy at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a Washington-based research group that supports increasing taxes on high-income individuals....
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    I care for a very simple reason.

    There has never been, and never will be, a poor tyrant.

    And the primary activity of tyrants that negatively impacts those they tyrannize is the accumulation of wealth and power.

    Tyrants force people to work for them. In the form of rents or taxes.

    They may just want to tell others what to do, but it costs MONEY to satisfy that desire, in the form of wages to men with weapons and their overseers.

    You know, that magic formula that keeps showing up where 1-2% lead another 15-20% to exploit the other 80%.

    Everywhere that it sucks for most to live follows this model.

    I will not apologize for objecting to this country conforming to this model.

    Nor will I miss an opportunity to point this out.
    Who are the American tyrants?

    Bill Gates? Warren Buffet? Soros? The late Steve Jobs?

    Can you get more specific?

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Because Wall Street isn't a scam even though there are some scammers on Wall Street. We have laws to protect investors, so enforce the laws and stop blaming everyone else. Nothing forces you to invest in Wall Street and if you do no one forces you to buy a particular investment so stop blaming everyone else for your failure and everyone else's that you want to blame Wall Street for. Where does personal responsibility lie in your world? If not capitalism, what?

    Sorry but your daughter is an idiot because I doubt that she even knows what she is protesting. Instead of wasting her time there do some good and give all her money away so stop with the BS. What purpose does the protest do and just think how that protest is going to look on their resume.
    Just exactly what the **** do you mean by that last sentence?
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Buffett's Obama-fellation is worthless

    first of all the group he whines about is less than 1000 people
    "Deloitte in 2011 estimated that there were 10,541,0000 US dollar millionaires in the United States."

    Millionaire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    secondly it deals with marginal next dollar rather than actual effective tax rates
    Wrong again, what Obama seeks to change is the effective tax rates:

    "Behind the arguments of Mr. Obama, Mr. Buffett and others about the inequity of the tax system is the difference between taxpayers’ marginal tax rate, popularly known as their tax bracket, and the effective tax rate they end up paying after subtracting for deductions, credits and other breaks.

    The marginal tax rate is the percentage paid on the last dollar a person earns. The current system has six marginal tax rate percentages — 10, 15, 25, 28, 33 and 35 — and each applies to a progressively higher amount of income. In theory, a wealthy filer pays the lower rates on income within each bracket, but the bulk of their income is taxed at the top 35 percent rate. Middle-class taxpayers generally pay marginal rates of 15 percent or 25 percent.

    But investors like Mr. Buffett pay no more than 15 percent on most of their income because that rate applies to capital gains, dividends and “carried interest,” which is the compensation paid to hedge fund partners and investment managers like Mr. Buffett.

    Another reason many wealthy Americans pay a smaller share of their income in federal taxes is that the Social Security payroll tax does not apply to income above $106,800; most people do not reach the cutoff and pay the tax on all their income.

    Counting income and payroll taxes, Mr. Buffett has said he paid an effective tax rate of 17.4 percent for 2010 compared with an average 36 percent rate for many employees of his company, Berkshire Hathaway."
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/18/us...pagewanted=all


    third to pay an effective rate of 18% you are making far more than what secretaries get paid
    Yeah, that's the point, those making more that are paying a lesser percentage of their total income in taxes.

    fourth, it ignores actual dollars paid
    Yes, investment income is taxed at a lower rate. The proposal is to increase the amount taxed on investments so that the rich are not paying a lower tax rate than the middle class.

    fifth, Even Buffett rejects the "Buffett plan"
    Wrong again, you are distorting the interview that notion originated from. As Buffett said, he wrote the tax plan. He does reserve the right however to see how Congress might rewrite his proposal.


    In summary, it is very impressive how you number your points, all of which proved untrue unfortunately. But please do try, try again.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Why would you call me names simply because I like something in a post? I happen to think he has a valid point that past higher tax rates did not remove the incentives for folks to get rich and make money. Who can argue with the historical record? Why is that something that makes me a coward?
    Because he responded to something I posted in response to you and also because you know that I was not referring to tax rates as per the income tax. You seem to have run away from the position you took regarding allowing people who have accumulated assets to pass them along to their children.

    The other person whoever/whatever he is, I am less interested in as it just likes to argue for the sake of arguing but seems to have little grasp.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post

    As to Catawba, I have no idea where you are coming from so any further response would be meaningless.
    I was responding to your earlier claim:

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Take away that motivation and you take a lot of energy out of the American spirit.
    I pointed out that taxes were much higher in our past for the wealthy and yet it did not reduce the motivation or the energy of American spirit. We in fact had the strongest middle class in our history.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Can we assume that spending would remain the same as in the 50's and 60's as well?
    Taxes were both higher for the rich and spending was lower. If we wish to reduce our debt, that is what we will have to get closer to.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I was responding to your earlier claim:



    I pointed out that taxes were much higher in our past for the wealthy and yet it did not reduce the motivation or the energy of American spirit. We in fact had the strongest middle class in our history.
    Not sure why I keep this up but once again I am not talking about current tax RATES. I am talking about the ability to accumulate wealth and transfer that to our children if that is what we want to do.

    I also think it is too simplistic to talk about talk about tax rates and growth rates decades past. There are all sorts of things that impact the growth in the economy, tax rates being only one of them. So to point to something like a different marginal tax rate 50 years ago and point to a different result in out overall economy is not worthy of debate.

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