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Thread: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I always get a chuckle when those who tend to have failed personal economics 101 lecture those who got an A in that subject.
    Turtle, how do you define "those who got an A in that subject".... personal economics 101 that is? We have many who did get an A in the subject courtesy of Mumsy and Daddykins passing onto them the brilliance of their decisions and hard work to be born into that family. I guess we would call that a "legacy A"?
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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    You might be interested in this article from the economist:.
    Thanks.

    As I've said before, my technical knowledge of economics is low. But my pattern recognition abilities keep yelling that something isn't right.

    SOMETHING of moment occurred in the mid 70s. This period of time marks a significant shift in the economic trajectory of the people of this country.

    Pretty much every graph and chart I see demonstrates that something major changed.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Jryan;1059851638]Yes, I am proud to say this is the way I was raised, minuse one thing. If I did become rich I would find it to be my civil duty to give back to those who helped me along the way and gave me such a great place to live. IE, I would want the US to tax me and everyone else at my income level at 90% progressive taxation. I would not donate my money though if such tax did not exist because me donating 100 million dollars is a piss in a pond of 14.5 trillion dollars and rising.
    Great, wouldn't that be a wonderful choice for you to make instead of having the govt. redistribute your money to someone else? I look at that as my civic duty as well which is why I give so much to charity and the church. That way it is my choice where my money goes just like it would be your choice to spend your money.

    You were doing so great and then you say you support the govt. taxing you at 90%. Doesn't that take away your civic duty and delegate it to the Govt? Think they can be more effect in solving local problems than you can by directing it how you see fit? You don't seem to understand the concept of personal responsibility thus the ability to direct your money wherever you want vs. the govt. directing it for you.


    How much you give to charity and to the church is your own business. Although I think it is a waste of time giving money to the church, but that is another discussion.
    You see, that is where you and I disagree. I believe it is my choice where to spend my money. Where do you think the govt. spends yours? At least I know where my money is going when I donate it, do you?


    Yeah, obviously someone is mis-claiming that the top 1% are or are not paying their fair share.

    Also, you gloated earlier in this thread about your income. Unless I misinterpreted that then feel free to correct me.
    Wasn't gloating at all just stating fact, logic, and common sense. It is easy claiming businesses and rich aren't paying enough. I put a name on that rich person which makes it tougher for you to argue. There isn't a lot of logic in the liberal argument, only feelings. You feel the govt. has your best interest at heart and those truly in need when the reality is the govt. has their own best interest at heart. you have no idea where your money is going when sent to the govt. but you do know where it is going when you spend it.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    As you have been asked to you believe Zuckerman was on that original list of wealthiest people? That indicates that the pie is always growing. What are you doing to get your piece of the pie? I see a lot of people here whining but I assure you that will never get more of the pie whining. Those that have much of the pie today only get more of the growing pie if you allow it and don't compete.
    The pie is growing unfortunately the number of people taking slices of the pie has increased much faster, that means smaller pieces for everyone except for a few who control the distribution of the pie, I know/expect you under stand this but just in case lets say that in America we have 320 million people drawing from the pie and then we bring in 1.3 billion Indians and another 1.2 billion Chinese. Now lets say that the pie represents jobs and their are 1.2 billion jobs and 3 billion job seekers that means that 1.8 billion do not have a slice of the pie and it will not matter what that 1.8 million do even if they re-educate their selves and displace some of those working those workers that they replaced now take their place as unemployed or underemployed.


    I question myself as to whether a global economy "pie" is a good or bad thing, short term it has hurt the american worker maybe long term "10-20 years" it would be good. I wonder if it is/was preventable but their is no way that anyone can deny the impact it has had on America's working middle class. Now those who have benefitted the most from the Chinese and Indian merging into the job pie are those who hand out the slices you know those that can invest in foreign markets. It seems that for some reason the Republicans and Wall Streeter's fight any effort to make the Chinese live up to the trade agreements and to bring their undervalued currency up

    Senate moves toward final vote on China currency

    Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said he wants a vote on legislation that could punish China for undervaluing its currency.

    The bill is intended to impose enough trade penalties against China so Beijing will keep the yuan below market values.
    The measure cleared an important procedural vote Thursday, and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said he wanted a vote on passage either late Thursday or Friday.

    STORY: House leader against punishing China on currency

    The White House has raised concerns about taking unilateral action against the Chinese. Multinational corporations that do business in China widely oppose the plan, fearing it could lead to a trade war.

    But the legislation has bipartisan backing from senators responding to popular resentment to the way China has come to dominate U.S. markets and drive American manufacturers out of business.

    Sen. Lindsey Graham, a Republican, cited estimates that China has cost the U.S. some 2 million manufacturing jobs in the past decade, and that the 30% advantage Chinese producers have because of the undervalued currency could prove devastating as China prepares to enter world markets in commercial aircraft and automobiles.

    Economists agree that the yuan is undervalued by 25% to 30% against the dollar; some put it as high as 40%. The result is that Chinese goods are increasingly cheaper in the United States and U.S. products more expensive in China.
    Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Ma Zhaoxu said in a statement this week that the bill violated World Trade Organization rules "and seriously disturbed China-U.S. trade and economic relations."

    Because of the support the Chinese receive from many republicans and Wall Streeters, The American worker can not compete against the low wages paid to foreign workers the Wall Streeter's and the many republicans supporting the Chinese

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    All the graphs on income disparity clearly demonstrate that about 19%, have also benefitted from service to the 1%.

    The overseer class.

    This is what has produced the huge numbers of newly rich in southeast asia.

    It appears these numbers are pretty constant globally and historically.

    1-2% have most of the wealth, the next 18-19% share in this wealth in exchange for "managing" the lower 80%.

    Prior to the mid 70s America was NOT following this pattern.

    Since then we have been returning to the good old status quo.
    How many social problems have been solved by the 14.6 TRILLION debt the govt. has generated? You think that govt. compassion is about how much money can be spent or actual results generated? Actual results generated means no longer needing govt. services.

    I don't care who controls most of the wealth, why do you? You don't seem to know or care what they do with their money and that is sad. You stereotype every rich person by the ILLEGAL actions of a few and that doesn't give you a lot of credibility. Until you know how much the rich give to charities your speculation is just that, speculation.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Turtle, how do you define "those who got an A in that subject".... personal economics 101 that is? We have many who did get an A in the subject courtesy of Mumsy and Daddykins passing onto them the brilliance of their decisions and hard work to be born into that family. I guess we would call that a "legacy A"?
    It seems to me that the greatness of America is that people on the lower rung of the economic ladder found ways to climb that ladder, rather than live in a caste system where people were constrained by their birth.

    If the proposals from your side is that we no longer want people to aspire and find ways to move up the ladder, rather the way to achieve is to pull others down then that should be of great concern. This mindset of what we can't do and need to pull others down will not get us out of the problems we face in my view.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    The pie is growing unfortunately the number of people taking slices of the pie has increased much faster, that means smaller pieces for everyone except for a few who control the distribution of the pie, I know/expect you under stand this but just in case lets say that in America we have 320 million people drawing from the pie and then we bring in 1.3 billion Indians and another 1.2 billion Chinese. Now lets say that the pie represents jobs and their are 1.2 billion jobs and 3 billion job seekers that means that 1.8 billion do not have a slice of the pie and it will not matter what that 1.8 million do even if they re-educate their selves and displace some of those working those workers that they replaced now take their place as unemployed or underemployed.


    I question myself as to whether a global economy "pie" is a good or bad thing, short term it has hurt the american worker maybe long term "10-20 years" it would be good. I wonder if it is/was preventable but their is no way that anyone can deny the impact it has had on America's working middle class. Now those who have benefitted the most from the Chinese and Indian merging into the job pie are those who hand out the slices you know those that can invest in foreign markets. It seems that for some reason the Republicans and Wall Streeter's fight any effort to make the Chinese live up to the trade agreements and to bring their undervalued currency up

    Senate moves toward final vote on China currency

    Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said he wants a vote on legislation that could punish China for undervaluing its currency.

    The bill is intended to impose enough trade penalties against China so Beijing will keep the yuan below market values.
    The measure cleared an important procedural vote Thursday, and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said he wanted a vote on passage either late Thursday or Friday.

    STORY: House leader against punishing China on currency

    The White House has raised concerns about taking unilateral action against the Chinese. Multinational corporations that do business in China widely oppose the plan, fearing it could lead to a trade war.

    But the legislation has bipartisan backing from senators responding to popular resentment to the way China has come to dominate U.S. markets and drive American manufacturers out of business.

    Sen. Lindsey Graham, a Republican, cited estimates that China has cost the U.S. some 2 million manufacturing jobs in the past decade, and that the 30% advantage Chinese producers have because of the undervalued currency could prove devastating as China prepares to enter world markets in commercial aircraft and automobiles.

    Economists agree that the yuan is undervalued by 25% to 30% against the dollar; some put it as high as 40%. The result is that Chinese goods are increasingly cheaper in the United States and U.S. products more expensive in China.
    Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Ma Zhaoxu said in a statement this week that the bill violated World Trade Organization rules "and seriously disturbed China-U.S. trade and economic relations."

    Because of the support the Chinese receive from many republicans and Wall Streeters, The American worker can not compete against the low wages paid to foreign workers the Wall Streeter's and the many republicans supporting the Chinese
    Still waiting for your answer as to how my earning income and getting wealthy hurt you or your family? What is my fair share in the form of State, Local, and Federal Taxes? Your focus is misguided as you ignore the liberal greed to focus on what individuals make on their own.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    =Conservative;1059851694]Still waiting for your answer as to how my earning income and getting wealthy hurt you or your family? What is my fair share in the form of State, Local, and Federal Taxes? Your focus is misguided as you ignore the liberal greed to focus on what individuals make on their own.
    First off I do not care what you make, you can't seem to under stand I am fine my family is fine we all worked and worked hard to make a living, my concern is for those less fortunate then I am, why because we are all part of the whole, not one of us could stand on our own. Maybe the difference is in where we came from the experiences we had that shaped our lives and opinions,

    If you did not participate in the scams that Wall Street perpetrated on Americans stealing from the middle class, poor and elderly by speculating on life essential needs, by engaging in our profiting from predatory lending practices ect. In other words if you worked for a living I could care less about what you have

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    First off I do not care what you make, you can't seem to under stand I am fine my family is fine we all worked and worked hard to make a living, my concern is for those less fortunate then I am, why because we are all part of the whole, not one of us could stand on our own. Maybe the difference is in where we came from the experiences we had that shaped our lives and opinions,

    If you did not participate in the scams that Wall Street perpetrated on Americans stealing from the middle class, poor and elderly by speculating on life essential needs, by engaging in our profiting from predatory lending practices ect. In other words if you worked for a living I could care less about what you have
    there are a very small percentage of those people you are describing but that doesn't stop you from stereotyping anyone that has more than you.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    It seems to me that the greatness of America is that people on the lower rung of the economic ladder found ways to climb that ladder, rather than live in a caste system where people were constrained by their birth.

    If the proposals from your side is that we no longer want people to aspire and find ways to move up the ladder, rather the way to achieve is to pull others down then that should be of great concern. This mindset of what we can't do and need to pull others down will not get us out of the problems we face in my view.
    Not at all. I want people to be successful - wildly successful. If a person through their own talent and hard work makes it big - bully for them and I raise my glass in a toast to them.

    My comments were geared to a very narrow slice - the silly claim that the rich got an A in personal economics (as one poster identified it) while in reality many who complain the loudest about the rich getting picked on are only rich because they had the dumb luck to be born into a family of means and inherit it.

    They did not earn an A in personal economics - they were given an A along with diapers, formual and a nice stroller.
    __________________________________________________ _
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