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Thread: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Jryan View Post
    Lets go over some basic math you seem to be lacking. Okay, we know that the top 1% are the richest blah blah blah. Alright, under the conservative philosophy, everyone, if they make the right decisions, can become a millionaire. How is that true? It isn't, 1% can't be expanded, it will always be the 1% unless we redistribute the wealth.
    So 1% cannot expand? We have 140 million working Americans today with a workforce of 154 million. Are you telling me tha 1% of 140 million is the same as 1% of 154 million? The 1% won't change but the actual number making up that one percent can and does change. Think Zuckerman was on that list a few years ago? A lot more self made millionaires created each year and there is plenty of room for you if you have the right attitude and get away from that negative entitlement mentality.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    So 1% cannot expand? We have 140 million working Americans today with a workforce of 154 million. Are you telling me tha 1% of 140 million is the same as 1% of 154 million? The 1% won't change but the actual number making up that one percent can and does change. Think Zuckerman was on that list a few years ago? A lot more self made millionaires created each year and there is plenty of room for you if you have the right attitude and get away from that negative entitlement mentality.
    But there isn't room for everybody who tries. Just 1%. You're trying the ever growing pie argument again.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    So 1% cannot expand?
    How is 1% going to expand? Yes, it can gain a few more people, but it will still be 1%. That would only be true though if we gained population. It still means 99% of the people in the US aren't in the 1%, and I wonder how many of those think they have a shot of being in the 1% because of people like you.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    But there isn't room for everybody who tries. Just 1%. You're trying the ever growing pie argument again.
    From what I can see you will never have to worry about getting into that top 1%. There is plenty of room at the top for anyone willing to take the risk, work hard, have the dedication to do what is required to get their. Zuckerman developed a new concept and is now a billionaire. Steve Jobs invented a computer in his garage. Bill Gates dropped out of college and created Microsoft. All it takes is initiative, drive, and hard work. Most here have that entitlement mentality and want it handed to them. I didn't grow up that way and worked hard for what I have. I resent you or anyone else telling me how to spend what I have earned. What entitles you to the spoils of my labor?

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Jryan View Post
    How is 1% going to expand? Yes, it can gain a few more people, but it will still be 1%. That would only be true though if we gained population. It still means 99% of the people in the US aren't in the 1%, and I wonder how many of those think they have a shot of being in the 1% because of people like you.
    1% of 140 million is 1.4 million people. 1% of 154 million is 1.54 million people or 140,000 more and that is today. As the population grows so does the 1%. Further you don't have to be in the 1% to be quite wealthy in all areas not just financial. I 35 years in the business world and did quite well. No one gave me anything other than the opportunity which I took advantage of. How am I preventing you from being in that top 1%? It is that kind of attitude that will assure you of reliance on the entitlement program for ever.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    How am I preventing you from being in that top 1%?
    By you merely being in the top 1% lessens my odds of being in the top 1%.

    What entitles you to the spoils of my labor?
    Nothing, what entitles you not to pay enough taxes?

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    But there isn't room for everybody who tries. Just 1%. You're trying the ever growing pie argument again.
    You might be interested in this article from the economist:.

    AMERICANS are an optimistic lot. If there is one thing they believe in above all, it is the ability to move ahead. In poll after poll, a majority reject the notion that success is determined by forces beyond their control. In early 2009, hardly a sunny period, 71% still agreed that hard work and personal skill are the main ingredients for success. A high degree of social mobility has always defined American culture, from the work of Alexis de Tocqueville and Horatio Alger to the remarkable story of Barack Obama himself.

    But the reality for most Americans is becoming more complicated. The recession came at the end of a period marked by record levels of inequality. Many Americans, lacking true upward mobility, bought its trappings, such as a bigger house or better car. Disaster duly followed. As a result, American optimism has been pierced by doubt. In a new poll for The Economist by YouGov, 36% of respondents said they had less opportunity than their parents did, compared with 39% who thought they had more. Half thought the next generation would have a lower standard of living, double the share that thought living standards would rise. As the country recovers, two problems cloud its future. Rates of social mobility are unlikely to grow. Inequality, however, may widen even further.

    These trends have been building up for years. In 1963 John Kennedy declared that a rising tide lifts all boats. Indeed, in 1963 this was true. Between 1947 and 1973, the typical American family’s income roughly doubled in real terms. Between 1973 and 2007, however, it grew by only 22%—and this thanks to the rise of two-worker households. In 2004 men in their 30s earned 12% less in real terms than their fathers did at a similar age, according to Pew’s Economic Mobility Project. This has been blamed on everything from immigration to trade to declining rates of unionisation. But the driving factor, most economists agree, has been technological change and the consequent lowering of demand for middle-skilled workers.

    The most highly skilled, meanwhile, have stuffed their pockets happily. Between 1970 and 2008 the Gini coefficient, a measure of income inequality, grew from 0.39 to 0.47. In mid-2008 the typical family’s income was lower than it had been in 2000. The richest 10% earned nearly half of all income, surpassing even their share in 1928, the year before the Great Crash.
    Last edited by Kushinator; 10-06-11 at 01:46 PM.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Jryan View Post
    By you merely being in the top 1% lessens my odds of being in the top 1%.



    Nothing, what entitles you not to pay enough taxes?
    Are you paying attention to what you are saying? How do you know how much I pay in taxes, how much I give to charity, how much I donate to the Church? You don't believe this is a problem in someone else claiming they know what someone else's fair share is? Is this the way you were raised and why are you then wasting your time in school if there is no opportunity for you in the future and this is your attitude towards individual wealth creation?

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Is this the way you were raised and why are you then wasting your time in school if there is no opportunity for you in the future and this is your attitude towards individual wealth creation?
    Yes, I am proud to say this is the way I was raised, minuse one thing. If I did become rich I would find it to be my civil duty to give back to those who helped me along the way and gave me such a great place to live. IE, I would want the US to tax me and everyone else at my income level at 90% progressive taxation. I would not donate my money though if such tax did not exist because me donating 100 million dollars is a piss in a pond of 14.5 trillion dollars and rising.

    How do you know how much I pay in taxes, how much I give to charity, how much I donate to the Church?
    How much you give to charity and to the church is your own business. Although I think it is a waste of time giving money to the church, but that is another discussion.

    You don't believe this is a problem in someone else claiming they know what someone else's fair share is?
    Yeah, obviously someone is mis-claiming that the top 1% are or are not paying their fair share.

    Also, you gloated earlier in this thread about your income. Unless I misinterpreted that then feel free to correct me.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    1% of 140 million is 1.4 million people. 1% of 154 million is 1.54 million people or 140,000 more and that is today. As the population grows so does the 1%. Further you don't have to be in the 1% to be quite wealthy in all areas not just financial. I 35 years in the business world and did quite well. No one gave me anything other than the opportunity which I took advantage of. How am I preventing you from being in that top 1%? It is that kind of attitude that will assure you of reliance on the entitlement program for ever.
    All the graphs on income disparity clearly demonstrate that about 19%, have also benefitted from service to the 1%.

    The overseer class.

    This is what has produced the huge numbers of newly rich in southeast asia.

    It appears these numbers are pretty constant globally and historically.

    1-2% have most of the wealth, the next 18-19% share in this wealth in exchange for "managing" the lower 80%.

    Prior to the mid 70s America was NOT following this pattern.

    Since then we have been returning to the good old status quo.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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