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Thread: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Poppycock! Tax cuts meant trillions (in less revenues than we would have had without them) for the last 3 decades, and our unfunded wars and bloated military cost us trillions and counting in debt.
    psychobabble. Trillions less? more lies. Its spending that costs money--the stuff you want and what buys your vote



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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    It is interesting and telling that the right is obsessed with only one side of the ledger. One of the first things anyone learns about a budget is that there are two sides INCOME and EXPENDITURES. The right only wants to look at EXPENDITURES and refuses to consider the INCOME side.

    The budgetary problems of the USA will only be solved when both sides are dealt with.

    And I never thought I would live long enough to see that sort of basic denial with reality due to extremist political ideology.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Voltaire X;1059833558]Our credit rating was downgraded because of congress's inability to raise the debt ceiling until the last minute, causing uncertainty that has never existed before. It wasn't because of the magnitude of the debt. S&P said "The political brinkmanship of latest months highlights what we see as America’s governance and policymaking becoming much less stable, much less powerful and much less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have turn into political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy."
    What happens to your credit rating when you have your credit limit raised and you spend the money? Nice spin.


    Also, the economy takes a while to adjust to things. The long term effects of legislation and other economic factors are not always immediately seen. You can't blame individuals for problems our country is facing. You have to blame specific pieces of legislation or decisions. You tend to favor ad hominem centered arguments.
    When you demonize the private sector, individual wealth creation, and promote class warfare the economy isn't going to recover. We got out of recession officially in June 2009 and Obama showed poor leadership ability. We should be better off today than we are.

    For the record, I think Obama has done a poor job as president. Unfortunately, the 2012 election is going to be a contest between the lesser of two evils, and I highly doubt that won't be Obama.
    It will be the Obama record on the ballot in 2012 and that record doesn't establish him as the lesser of two evils.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "The first chart is a snapshot of federal debt based on data from the U.S. Treasury and the 2012 Federal Budget issued by the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) in February."

    As the chart clearly illustrates, the tax cuts in the early 1980s coincided with the beginning of an acceleration in real federal debt from a relatively consistent level over the previous three decades.

    Debt-to-GDP Charts

    "The next chart replaces real debt with the debt-to-GDP (Gross Domestic Product) ratio, which gives us a better idea of the true debt burden. Against the backdrop of U.S. history, the contours of the first two-thirds of the chart are easy to understand. Debt-to-GDP soared with the U.S. entry into World War I, as did the personal tax rates. After the war the ratio gradually dropped, this time against the backdrop of the "Roaring Twenties." The Crash of 1929 and Great Depression triggered a rise in the ratio to levels exceeding the peak in World War I. Logically enough, World War II brought about another rapid rise in Debt-to-GDP. War costs drove the ratio to a peak above 120% in 1946."

    Debt-to-GDP Charts

    'Here is another view of the federal debt-to-GDP ratio, this time with major wars and the Great Depression highlighted. I've added markers to the debt ratio series to identify individual years. As we can readily see, only once in U.S. history, the WWII debt peak of 1945-46, have we had a higher Debt-to-GDP ratio than the current six-year forecast:"

    Debt-to-GDP Charts

    "The 2001 and 2003 tax cuts have been extended for two years, unemployment remains high — even as Fed Chairman Bernanke continues to warn about the federal debt problem."

    Debt, Taxes and Politics
    I look forward to responding to this and destroying your comments. None of what you posted is relevant but I will get to it later. On the road and won't be able to respond until later tonight.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    psychobabble. Trillions less? more lies. Its spending that costs money--the stuff you want and what buys your vote
    psychobabble? The king of babble sticking to his rhetorical talking points. Please King B tell us that we wanted two wars that we wanted to be sucked into Bin Laden's Bush's/Cheney's/Rumsfield's trap. Two unfunded wars that went on and go on when all that it took was a Seal team to get the job done.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Poppycock! Tax cuts meant trillions (in less revenues than we would have had without them) for the last 3 decades, and our unfunded wars and bloated military cost us trillions and counting in debt.
    yes it did for the feds, I agree. Lets see less revenue for the feds , do you think spending should have been reduced to match income?

    Yet if I have more money, I might spend more. local and state tax revenue go up. More federal taxes, less personal income to spend, has a negative impact towns and States. If I spend less, then there is less demand for products. But guess the feds will save us all, right.
    "I can explain it to you but, I can't understand it for you"

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    So conservatives want to cut spending. Ok, from where? If you cut into welfare or cut entire government agencies like education you will put more people on the street and unemployed. So you solve the deficit and skyrocket homelessness and unemployment as well as create a revenue problem possibly increasing the deficit that way. I thought conservatives were griping that Obama had a high unemoyment rate and their solution is to raise that.

    We need revenue from some place to fund a job training program to put people back to work.

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    psychobabble. Trillions less? more lies. Its spending that costs money--the stuff you want and what buys your vote
    I see, you have nothing to refute the evidence of historical record I presented here: http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1059833892

    Thanks for playing!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It is interesting and telling that the right is obsessed with only one side of the ledger. One of the first things anyone learns about a budget is that there are two sides INCOME and EXPENDITURES. The right only wants to look at EXPENDITURES and refuses to consider the INCOME side.

    The budgetary problems of the USA will only be solved when both sides are dealt with.

    And I never thought I would live long enough to see that sort of basic denial with reality due to extremist political ideology.
    I agree both sides of the equation needs to be looked at. It isn't so simple as that, You have to consider other govt taxes we pay that are not federal. Consider this. If someone pays more federal income tax, they have less pocket money to spend. Local and State sales tax goes down. leaving them will less revenue. So local, State needs to raise revenue or cut spending.

    Your revenue / expenditure theme is no different than what you and I have to do. So until you get a higher paying job, do you spend more or just go futher in deb?. I generally adjusted my spending.
    "I can explain it to you but, I can't understand it for you"

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    Re: White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    I agree both sides of the equation needs to be looked at. It isn't so simple as that, You have to consider other govt taxes we pay that are not federal. Consider this. If someone pays more federal income tax, they have less pocket money to spend. Local and State sales tax goes down. leaving them will less revenue. So local, State needs to raise revenue or cut spending.

    Your revenue / expenditure theme is no different than what you and I have to do. So until you get a higher paying job, do you spend more or just go futher in deb?. I generally adjusted my spending.
    I am in a long line of husbands who implore their spouse to adjust their spending only to be told that I need to make more money.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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