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Federal Investigators Looking Into What Caused Deadly Crash at Air Show

Councilman

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The death toll this morning was raised to 9 and many more are still in trouble in hospitals, but it could have been so much worse.

One of the pictures taken off a video shows that piece of the left elevator had come apart.

So it appears the age of the veteran pilot was in play and he actually saved lives, ad he lost his own.

Police Say Nine Killed In Deadly Crash At Reno Air Show, As Probe Focuses On Wayward Part | Fox News
RENO, Nev. – Federal investigators on Saturday began looking into what caused a 74-year-old pilot to lose control of his World War II-era plane and crash next to a VIP section at a Reno air race in an accident that reportedly killed at least nine people and sent dozens to the hospital, Fox News reports.
National Transportation Safety Board spokesman Terry Williams told The Associated Press Saturday that a team has arrived from Washington to join regional officials. He said it's too early to say what caused the crash.
As thousands watched in horror, the plane competing in a Nevada event described as a car race in the sky suddenly pitched upward, rolled and did a nose-dive toward the crowded grandstand.
 
"A video shot by a spectator shows the small, brightly colored plane flying high overhead with its wings pitched almost perfectly vertical. Suddenly, brown smoke billows from the back of the plane, which almost immediately shoots to the ground. The camera finds the plane a moment later in a small sea of bodies, a trail of debris spread along the tarmac."

3 dead, dozens injured in Reno air show crash | | The Bulletin

"Reno as investigators determined that several spectators were killed on impact as the 1940s-model plane appeared to lose a piece of its tail before slamming like a missile into a crowded tarmac.

Moments earlier, thousands had arched their necks skyward and watched the planes speed by just a few hundred feet off the ground before some noticed a strange gurgling engine noise from above. Seconds later, the P-51 Mustang dubbed the Galloping Ghost pitched oddly upward, twirled and took an immediate nosedive into a section of white VIP box seats.



Reno Air Show Plane Crash: Airplane Crashes Into Stands At National Championship Air Races In Nevada (VIDEO)




VIDEO: Plane Crashes at Reno, Nevada Air Show


Last Interview of Jimmy Leeward, Pilot.



This is the last interview with pilot Jimmy Leeward, which was apparently filmed Thursday. His plane crashed Friday afternoon at the Reno Air Races. - KTXL




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The death toll this morning was raised to 9 and many more are still in trouble in hospitals, but it could have been so much worse.

One of the pictures taken off a video shows that piece of the left elevator had come apart.

So it appears the age of the veteran pilot was in play and he actually saved lives, ad he lost his own.

What makes you say that?
 
What makes you say that?

Others have said that the Galloping Ghost pilot was headed toward the 12 or so high rows of seats, in temporary stands, on the runway. The plane was headed for the stands, but apparently the pilot deliberately dove the wayward plane into the runway, before hitting the filled temporary stands. There were people in individual chairs on the runway, before the stands. Not sure what the puff of smoke was that came from the plane, before lurching upward and rolling. Banking in a turn at maximum G's, close to the ground may not give a pilot much room to manuever, when even just a single control mechanism is lost.


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Has anyone on this thread actually been to an air-show. They do daring things! Do all kinds of tricks to stall the plane then drag it out just before getting to the runway. The age of the pilot is irrelevant. The real question is whether something failed on the airplane, or was it simply pilot error.
 
Has anyone on this thread actually been to an air-show. They do daring things! Do all kinds of tricks to stall the plane then drag it out just before getting to the runway. The age of the pilot is irrelevant. The real question is whether something failed on the airplane, or was it simply pilot error.

If the Gallping Ghost engine lost power in a turn, might that cause the plane to roll out of a banked turn? Or could the roll be a result of over-correction, responding to the loss of power, by the Pilot?

Pilots at air shows take chances to entertain and thrill the spectators. Usually spectators do not think of themselves as daredevils, as the audience, but apparently there are some risks even as a spectator at air shows. There have been some spectator injuries at auto races in recent years.

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Has anyone on this thread actually been to an air-show. They do daring things! Do all kinds of tricks to stall the plane then drag it out just before getting to the runway. The age of the pilot is irrelevant. The real question is whether something failed on the airplane, or was it simply pilot error.

I've been to a couple. This was an air race, not an air show where the aircraft do stunts and complex maneuvers/aerobatics.
 
Has anyone on this thread actually been to an air-show. They do daring things! Do all kinds of tricks to stall the plane then drag it out just before getting to the runway. The age of the pilot is irrelevant. The real question is whether something failed on the airplane, or was it simply pilot error.

The P-51 has a heavy engine compared with the wing span, and wing lift area. If a lighter, single engine plane loses power, there is glide time to maneuver. The P-51 is coming down fast, particularly from low altitude, and when banked for a turn. The brown cloud reported seen from the Galloping Ghost may have been coolant, the P-51 is water cooled. If coolant is lost, the engine will oeverheat, and sieze, or at least lose power.

Here is a list of other P-51 accidents.


The P-51 Mustang Accidents -MustangsMustangs.com:




Here is an NTSB report of a P-51 Crash reportedly caused by a coolant leak, and subsequent engine damage, and loss of control of the aircraft.



CHI97LA284

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Vintage WWII aircraft like this should be retired to museums, not flown at airshows.
 
Vintage WWII aircraft like this should be retired to museums, not flown at airshows.

There may not be enough prize money in air races to sufficiently keep the planes in airline safe repair.


Here is report on a P-51 accident at a Reno Air race in 1994, in which the Propeller Oil seal started leaking, obscuring pilot vision, leading to a nose down landing, with a pilot only fatality.

LAX94LA361



31 Hours of flight training on a P-51 may not be enough experience to handle this Fighter plane.


http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20070720X00970&key=1

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[...] 31 Hours of flight training on a P-51 may not be enough experience to handle this Fighter plane.

SEA07LA196
That would depend on a variety of factors, none of which are addressed in your link.
 
Has anyone on this thread actually been to an air-show. They do daring things! Do all kinds of tricks to stall the plane then drag it out just before getting to the runway. The age of the pilot is irrelevant. The real question is whether something failed on the airplane, or was it simply pilot error.
I have. Reno, in fact (they had a fatality that year as well). In both cases, plane broke. Pilot along for ride. End of story.
 
That would depend on a variety of factors, none of which are addressed in your link.


If you press the FULL NARRATIVE report button, it was reported that the pilot in the Torque Roll crash had some 2100 hours, in all aircraft:

"The pilot, age 42, held a private pilot certificate with airplane single and multiengine land ratings and an instrument rating. According to FAA records, he had a total flight time of about 2,100 hours."

The P-51 is a challenge to fly.


There were reports of a gurgling noise, possibly indicating the engine was misfiring. In addition to the problems of control resulting from reduced air flow across the wing lift area, the engine creates changes in Torque, which can cause the P-51 to roll, as the engine accellerates or reduces power. There was a report, and video, showing the Galloping Ghost rolled out of the banked turn of the race course.

North American P-51 Mustang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Handling the P-51 Torque Roll:



"I remember telling everyone I ever checked out in the Mustang to take it up high, lower the gear and flaps, then back it off to about 15 inches with the prop up to 3 grand... slow it down easy to about 130 mph... then SLAM in 61 inches fast. The resulting torque roll might have helped save a few lives on full power go-arounds. None of my guys ever "torqued one in" anyway..."


http://www.warbirdalley.com/articles/p51pr.htm




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If you press the FULL NARRATIVE report button [...]
If you had linked to the full report, you would have produced a better post (instead of providing a navigating challenge to others).

The loss of an elevator component has been clearly shown on video (which I saw on news but have no link to). This makes your link, and your point, irrelevant as well. Plane broke, apparently in a high-G turn. Ergo, pilot along for ride. End of story (again).
 
It appears gravity had a huge role in the crash.
 
The loss of an elevator component has been clearly shown on video (which I saw on news but have no link to). This makes your link, and your point, irrelevant as well. Plane broke, apparently in a high-G turn. Ergo, pilot along for ride. End of story (again).


"That photo is heavily cropped and does not provide much context as to exactly when this photo was taken... but all these elements might suggest the possibility of a 'flutter' event as one of the issues involved in this accident. From what we've researched and documented, a failure of the trim tab (especially at speeds pushing 500MPH) can produce a massive amount of pitch excursion... and the loads on the pilot could be intense...

As an example, in 1998, a racing incident involving Bob Button's P-51 'VooDoo' centered around an elevator trim tab failure. Pilot Bob Hannah experienced a failure of the left elevator trim tab, which, "came off the airplane at speed, causing the bird to abruptly pitch up, subjecting driver Hannah to over 10 G's of deceleration forces, and causing him to lose conciousness! When he came to, the raceplane had climbed to over 9,000 feet of altitude. A shaken Hannah regained control and brought Voodoo in for a safe landing. Suspected structural damage kept the sleek raceplane out of Sunday's championship competition."

Updated: Tragedy At Reno--Leeward Killed, 8 Spectator Fatalities, Races Canceled | Aero-News Network


"This photo, taken moments before the crash, shows that the P-51 had lost its left elevator trim tab."


"....the trim tab came off after pulling the high G climb, there was already an issue with the aircraft before this happened."


http://www.aviationlawmonitor.com/2...on-1/reno-p51-mustang-lost-elevator-trim-tab/


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Maybe Air Show/Race spectators need to be more spread out, so therw is room to run away, of a plane gets out of control.

I am not clear on the time line as to when Leeward called "Mayday", whether fluttering vibration started while the Galloping Ghost was still stable in the turn, and exactly what prompted Leeward to call MAYDAY: when the Left Elevator Trim Tab became non-operational, and if there were enough G's of force to cause Leeward to lose consciousness at some point.




"Aircraft experts said losing the part could have forced Leeward to yank the plane up too fast, possibly overcorrecting and stalling, meaning the engines would be running but air breaks up over the wings, causing it to lose lift. He probably would have been able to pull out of it safely if he hadn't been at low altitude, they said."Assuming the aircraft had no other problems, and assuming the pilot had no problems, if he had enough altitude, you can easily get out of that no big deal ... Matter of fact, the P-51 was designed for that," said Ken Liano, a structural engineer and aircraft consultant."



Page 2: Plane in NV Crash Had 'Radical' Changes to Compete - ABC News




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Maybe that plane was so powerful that if you pulled back on the stick too fast, it would create so many G's of forces as to pull the fluids out of the pilot's brain, creating unconsciouness. Quite a ride.


There was a limited channel "Black Box" on the galloping Ghost.

Another hospitalized Spectator has passed way, brining the death toll to 10, including the pilot. RIP


"The memory cards, which were the same type as memory cards used in video cameras, would be sent to a research laboratory in Washington, D.C., for analysis, he said. In response to a question during the briefing, Rosekind said that investigators knew that the telemetry system transmitted real-time data, but they did not yet know how often the system sent or recorded its measurements. Investigators also were collecting video and photographic images taken at the time of crash by race spectators. A focus of the inquiry was the aircraft’s tail section, to determine whether a trim tab or other component had separated from the aircraft."



AOPA Online: Reno accident probe examines memory cards, telemetry
 
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Because his age and experience were in play in that he knew he was going to die and he did what ever he could to save others. I think many people might have just closed their eyes and let it happen.

Ejection is not an option when spectators are present.


Since it will take at least several months as the future of the Reno Air Races is sorted out, and the insurance coverage for the injuries is worked out, I started a thread under Sports talk.


http://www.debatepolitics.com/sports-talk/108909-reno-airplane-races-and-air-shows.html

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