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Thread: Federal Investigators Looking Into What Caused Deadly Crash at Air Show

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    Re: Federal Investigators Looking Into What Caused Deadly Crash at Air Show

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    Re: Federal Investigators Looking Into What Caused Deadly Crash at Air Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post
    [...] 31 Hours of flight training on a P-51 may not be enough experience to handle this Fighter plane.

    SEA07LA196
    That would depend on a variety of factors, none of which are addressed in your link.

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    Re: Federal Investigators Looking Into What Caused Deadly Crash at Air Show

    Quote Originally Posted by stsburns View Post
    Has anyone on this thread actually been to an air-show. They do daring things! Do all kinds of tricks to stall the plane then drag it out just before getting to the runway. The age of the pilot is irrelevant. The real question is whether something failed on the airplane, or was it simply pilot error.
    I have. Reno, in fact (they had a fatality that year as well). In both cases, plane broke. Pilot along for ride. End of story.

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    Re: Federal Investigators Looking Into What Caused Deadly Crash at Air Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    That would depend on a variety of factors, none of which are addressed in your link.

    If you press the FULL NARRATIVE report button, it was reported that the pilot in the Torque Roll crash had some 2100 hours, in all aircraft:

    "The pilot, age 42, held a private pilot certificate with airplane single and multiengine land ratings and an instrument rating. According to FAA records, he had a total flight time of about 2,100 hours."

    The P-51 is a challenge to fly.


    There were reports of a gurgling noise, possibly indicating the engine was misfiring. In addition to the problems of control resulting from reduced air flow across the wing lift area, the engine creates changes in Torque, which can cause the P-51 to roll, as the engine accellerates or reduces power. There was a report, and video, showing the Galloping Ghost rolled out of the banked turn of the race course.

    North American P-51 Mustang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Handling the P-51 Torque Roll:



    "I remember telling everyone I ever checked out in the Mustang to take it up high, lower the gear and flaps, then back it off to about 15 inches with the prop up to 3 grand... slow it down easy to about 130 mph... then SLAM in 61 inches fast. The resulting torque roll might have helped save a few lives on full power go-arounds. None of my guys ever "torqued one in" anyway..."


    http://www.warbirdalley.com/articles/p51pr.htm




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    Last edited by Gladiator; 09-18-11 at 08:20 PM.
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    Re: Federal Investigators Looking Into What Caused Deadly Crash at Air Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post
    If you press the FULL NARRATIVE report button [...]
    If you had linked to the full report, you would have produced a better post (instead of providing a navigating challenge to others).

    The loss of an elevator component has been clearly shown on video (which I saw on news but have no link to). This makes your link, and your point, irrelevant as well. Plane broke, apparently in a high-G turn. Ergo, pilot along for ride. End of story (again).

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    Re: Federal Investigators Looking Into What Caused Deadly Crash at Air Show

    It appears gravity had a huge role in the crash.

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    Re: Federal Investigators Looking Into What Caused Deadly Crash at Air Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    The loss of an elevator component has been clearly shown on video (which I saw on news but have no link to). This makes your link, and your point, irrelevant as well. Plane broke, apparently in a high-G turn. Ergo, pilot along for ride. End of story (again).

    "That photo is heavily cropped and does not provide much context as to exactly when this photo was taken... but all these elements might suggest the possibility of a 'flutter' event as one of the issues involved in this accident. From what we've researched and documented, a failure of the trim tab (especially at speeds pushing 500MPH) can produce a massive amount of pitch excursion... and the loads on the pilot could be intense...

    As an example, in 1998, a racing incident involving Bob Button's P-51 'VooDoo' centered around an elevator trim tab failure. Pilot Bob Hannah experienced a failure of the left elevator trim tab, which, "came off the airplane at speed, causing the bird to abruptly pitch up, subjecting driver Hannah to over 10 G's of deceleration forces, and causing him to lose conciousness! When he came to, the raceplane had climbed to over 9,000 feet of altitude. A shaken Hannah regained control and brought Voodoo in for a safe landing. Suspected structural damage kept the sleek raceplane out of Sunday's championship competition."

    Updated: Tragedy At Reno--Leeward Killed, 8 Spectator Fatalities, Races Canceled | Aero-News Network


    "This photo, taken moments before the crash, shows that the P-51 had lost its left elevator trim tab."


    "....the trim tab came off after pulling the high G climb, there was already an issue with the aircraft before this happened."


    http://www.aviationlawmonitor.com/20...ator-trim-tab/


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    Last edited by Gladiator; 09-19-11 at 06:08 PM.
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    Re: Federal Investigators Looking Into What Caused Deadly Crash at Air Show

    Maybe Air Show/Race spectators need to be more spread out, so therw is room to run away, of a plane gets out of control.

    I am not clear on the time line as to when Leeward called "Mayday", whether fluttering vibration started while the Galloping Ghost was still stable in the turn, and exactly what prompted Leeward to call MAYDAY: when the Left Elevator Trim Tab became non-operational, and if there were enough G's of force to cause Leeward to lose consciousness at some point.




    "Aircraft experts said losing the part could have forced Leeward to yank the plane up too fast, possibly overcorrecting and stalling, meaning the engines would be running but air breaks up over the wings, causing it to lose lift. He probably would have been able to pull out of it safely if he hadn't been at low altitude, they said."Assuming the aircraft had no other problems, and assuming the pilot had no problems, if he had enough altitude, you can easily get out of that no big deal ... Matter of fact, the P-51 was designed for that," said Ken Liano, a structural engineer and aircraft consultant."



    Page 2: Plane in NV Crash Had 'Radical' Changes to Compete - ABC News




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    Re: Federal Investigators Looking Into What Caused Deadly Crash at Air Show

    Maybe that plane was so powerful that if you pulled back on the stick too fast, it would create so many G's of forces as to pull the fluids out of the pilot's brain, creating unconsciouness. Quite a ride.


    There was a limited channel "Black Box" on the galloping Ghost.

    Another hospitalized Spectator has passed way, brining the death toll to 10, including the pilot. RIP


    "The memory cards, which were the same type as memory cards used in video cameras, would be sent to a research laboratory in Washington, D.C., for analysis, he said. In response to a question during the briefing, Rosekind said that investigators knew that the telemetry system transmitted real-time data, but they did not yet know how often the system sent or recorded its measurements. Investigators also were collecting video and photographic images taken at the time of crash by race spectators. A focus of the inquiry was the aircraft’s tail section, to determine whether a trim tab or other component had separated from the aircraft."



    AOPA Online: Reno accident probe examines memory cards, telemetry
    Last edited by Gladiator; 09-19-11 at 08:48 PM.
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    Re: Federal Investigators Looking Into What Caused Deadly Crash at Air Show

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    What makes you say that?
    Because his age and experience were in play in that he knew he was going to die and he did what ever he could to save others. I think many people might have just closed their eyes and let it happen.

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