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Thread: U.S. jobs crisis may get bloody; Bloomberg, experts warn of riots

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    Re: U.S. jobs crisis may get bloody; Bloomberg, experts warn of riots

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    BTW:

    But the report found no large increases in unemployment claims, thanks in part to a big hiring push for cleanup crews and massive spending by BP on the recovery effort.

    Drilling Moratorium Hasn't Cost Any Jobs In The Gulf, Feds Say
    No jobs lost according to...Obama? LOL!!!!!!!

    We all know Obama wouldn't lie to cover his ass, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: U.S. jobs crisis may get bloody; Bloomberg, experts warn of riots

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It's not a matter of number. Never will be. It's a matter or necessary and reasonable or not.
    Do you reckon it's reasonable to prohibit children from selling lemonade or from businesses offering free coffee to customers?
    Studies show no matter how reasonable that sounds, it doesn't work that way. Give business more money, they pocket it. Only when and if they have reason to believe something will sell or make money will they invest, taxes be damned.
    The government should not be giving businesses money, as you claim they are doing, because we can see what happened when they guaranteed mortgages.

    Yes, people go into business in order to make money, and i suspect most people go to their jobs for the same reason. The idea of going into business to make money is not new. It is probably the oldest profession.

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    Re: U.S. jobs crisis may get bloody; Bloomberg, experts warn of riots

    Greenspan worried more than 10 years ago that the rich poor gap was getting so wide that it threatened to destroy democratic capitalism entirely. What he meant was basically what Bloomberg is saying. When you see the actual numbers, it is so shockingly unreasonable that it is hard to understand why the poor and the middle class aren't rising up. Since Greenspan said that we've had the median income of the top 1% quadrupile while the median income for everybody else actually fell. We're reaching the point where we simply can't afford to support this kind of unprecedented and ongoing transfer of the nation's wealth to the rich.

    Now, Greenspan is an economist not a sociologist. He starts from the assumption that people are rational and self interested. If you use that model, yeah, people would have revolted a long time ago. The costs of a revolution to the general public are less than the benefits of resetting the economic system. But, people aren't really wealth maximizing equations. They have a lot of inertia, they loath violence, they are mostly just interested in having enough more than having their fair share, etc. People are mostly unaware of how severely skewed the distribution of wealth has become. So there hasn't been a revolution.

    But, the factors keep piling on. This recession that hit the middle class painfully, but has left the investors mostly unscathed is adding pressure. The GOP's attempt to put the entire weight of the deficit solely on the backs of the poor and middle class, were it to succeed, would add pressure. The continually widening rich/poor gap is continually adding pressure. At some point along that spectrum the people do decide it is time to revolt. Where that point is, or if we'll ever go that far, I have no idea, but the point exists. Is it when the top 1% are soaking up 50% of the wealth? 80%? Or is it just 34%, one percent past where we are now? Or is it just one Republican saying the wrong thing at the wrong time that will snap the tension? Or is it union busting? Or is it a second dip in the recession? Whatever it is, the rich would be wise to take heed. If they reel back their greed even a little bit they can probably avoid that outcome indefinitely, but if they keep going full force and eating up more and more of our country's wealth they'll eventually end up losing it all.

    Now, that might not mean violence. Could just mean electing politicians that will sort it out. But either way, it would be a massive economic reordering.

    My bet is that in the next few years we start to see an easing of this whole rush to squeeze all the money in the country into a handful of pockets. We move back towards something like the balance we had at least when Greenspan made that prediction, and there never is any revolution. But if instead we had 10 more "Bush" years where the median income falls while the top 1% sees their income quadrupile again, I have a hard time believing people wouldn't take action. At that point we'd be clearly on the path to a country with 1% of the people being absurdly rich and 99% of the people living in poverty with no hope of ever making it in to that 1%. This is a great country and I do not believe the people would let it collapse into that.

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    Re: U.S. jobs crisis may get bloody; Bloomberg, experts warn of riots

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Do you reckon it's reasonable to prohibit children from selling lemonade or from businesses offering free coffee to customers?
    Is this the best example you have? Have you looked at the rationale for these minor things?

    The government should not be giving businesses money, as you claim they are doing, because we can see what happened when they guaranteed mortgages.

    Yes, people go into business in order to make money, and i suspect most people go to their jobs for the same reason. The idea of going into business to make money is not new. It is probably the oldest profession.
    However, they constantly give business money, business so in love with this country that they will take our money, cut jobs and move overseas. Business that despite this lack of loyality to the people of this country, taking our money, seeking to pay next to no taxes, and none if they can get away with it, moving overseas, these people still get the underserved support of conservatives who seem to think they have to pay the blackmail to these companies or there will be no jobs.

    Both parties give them money. Both parties favor business over workers. And too many workers also favor business over their own well being.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: U.S. jobs crisis may get bloody; Bloomberg, experts warn of riots

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    No jobs lost according to...Obama? LOL!!!!!!!

    We all know Obama wouldn't lie to cover his ass, too.
    Did they quote Obama? Please highlight that.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: U.S. jobs crisis may get bloody; Bloomberg, experts warn of riots

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Is this the best example you have? Have you looked at the rationale for these minor things?
    I sent tou a link about the over regulation, but can you offer a rational as to why a child is banned from selling lemonade? Or a business offering free coffee?


    However, they constantly give business money, business so in love with this country that they will take our money, cut jobs and move overseas.
    Why is the government, as they diid in the mortgage and automaker fiascoes, giving away money? Can you point to some examples of these giveaways? And the government, by the way, is showing no loyalty to American business.

    Business that despite this lack of loyality to the people of this country, taking our money, seeking to pay next to no taxes, and none if they can get away with it, moving overseas, these people still get the underserved support of conservatives who seem to think they have to pay the blackmail to these companies or there will be no jobs.
    Are you suggesting that companies should be barred from leaving the country? Make them pay higher taxes? What is your solution?
    Both parties give them money. Both parties favor business over workers. And too many workers also favor business over their own well being.
    There seemed to be a lot of support when when BHO got the American government involved in the automobile business, and there are still people who support this. Why complain about this now? People should have been marching through the streets at the time.
    Last edited by Grant; 09-21-11 at 11:03 AM.

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    Re: U.S. jobs crisis may get bloody; Bloomberg, experts warn of riots

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Did they quote Obama? Please highlight that.
    Yes, I'm sure his black hands have creeped their way into the entire bureaucracy corrupting every man, and cooking every book in the entire government of the united states.

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    Re: U.S. jobs crisis may get bloody; Bloomberg, experts warn of riots

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I sent tou a link about the over regulation, but can you offer a rational as to why a child is banned from selling lemonade? Or a business offering free coffee?
    No, you sent a link saying it was costly. And another that some THINK it is over regulation, but nothing objective to prove it is overdone.

    Why is the government, as they diid in the mortgage and automaker fiascoes, giving away money? Can you point to some examples of these giveaways? And the government, by the way, is showing no loyalty to American business.
    Why do you think? They spend a lot more money on business than they do people on welfare. I'm sure if you think about it you can come up with a reason.


    Are you suggesting that companies should be barred from leaving the country? Make them pay higher taxes? What is your solution?
    Nope. I'm suggesting you can't bibe them enough to keep them. In places where taxes have been eliminated altogether, they still left. You have to consider working for next to nothing, foregoing health care benefits, and becoming as cheap as where they are going. Appeasing them with mere taxes won't be enough.

    But I sure as hell wouldn't give them any more money either.

    There seemed to be a lot of support when when BHO got the American government involved in the automobile business, and there are still people who support this. Why complain about this now? People should have been marching through the streets at the time.
    There is a lot of support, from both parties. No me mind you, but there is support. The auto industry once took a money, in the millions I think, for a "jobs program." We gave the money, they fired folks, and made huge profits. Them folding would have been painful, and our leaders would have been blamed, wrongly so, but business won't do us any damned favors in return. And some, largely conservative, will make excuses for them while demonizing the individual who might need some help. It is all quite illogical.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: U.S. jobs crisis may get bloody; Bloomberg, experts warn of riots

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    To the contrary, the decision was a naked abrogation of authority by the conservatives on the Supreme Court to steal a presidential election. Scalia, Renquist, and Thomas all reversed their previously-held positions on equal protection to reach the desired result, and notably held that their decision would have no precedential value. The court was also rife with conflicts of interest that would have required members of any other court to recuse themselves. It may have been the most corrupt decision in Supreme Court history.
    Heaven forbid that a Supreme Court judge on the facts of the case and using Florida state law, rather than judicial activism ignoring the facts of the case and the legislatures decisions of the state in question. I am not of the opinion that any of the justices ought to have recused themselves, but I won't debate that as it is purely a matter of your opinion vs. mine, based on nothing more than partisan leanings.

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    Re: U.S. jobs crisis may get bloody; Bloomberg, experts warn of riots

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Greenspan worried more than 10 years ago that the rich poor gap was getting so wide that it threatened to destroy democratic capitalism entirely. What he meant was basically what Bloomberg is saying. When you see the actual numbers, it is so shockingly unreasonable that it is hard to understand why the poor and the middle class aren't rising up. Since Greenspan said that we've had the median income of the top 1% quadrupile while the median income for everybody else actually fell. We're reaching the point where we simply can't afford to support this kind of unprecedented and ongoing transfer of the nation's wealth to the rich.

    Now, Greenspan is an economist not a sociologist. He starts from the assumption that people are rational and self interested. If you use that model, yeah, people would have revolted a long time ago. The costs of a revolution to the general public are less than the benefits of resetting the economic system. But, people aren't really wealth maximizing equations. They have a lot of inertia, they loath violence, they are mostly just interested in having enough more than having their fair share, etc. People are mostly unaware of how severely skewed the distribution of wealth has become. So there hasn't been a revolution.

    But, the factors keep piling on. This recession that hit the middle class painfully, but has left the investors mostly unscathed is adding pressure. The GOP's attempt to put the entire weight of the deficit solely on the backs of the poor and middle class, were it to succeed, would add pressure. The continually widening rich/poor gap is continually adding pressure. At some point along that spectrum the people do decide it is time to revolt. Where that point is, or if we'll ever go that far, I have no idea, but the point exists. Is it when the top 1% are soaking up 50% of the wealth? 80%? Or is it just 34%, one percent past where we are now? Or is it just one Republican saying the wrong thing at the wrong time that will snap the tension? Or is it union busting? Or is it a second dip in the recession? Whatever it is, the rich would be wise to take heed. If they reel back their greed even a little bit they can probably avoid that outcome indefinitely, but if they keep going full force and eating up more and more of our country's wealth they'll eventually end up losing it all.

    Now, that might not mean violence. Could just mean electing politicians that will sort it out. But either way, it would be a massive economic reordering.

    My bet is that in the next few years we start to see an easing of this whole rush to squeeze all the money in the country into a handful of pockets. We move back towards something like the balance we had at least when Greenspan made that prediction, and there never is any revolution. But if instead we had 10 more "Bush" years where the median income falls while the top 1% sees their income quadrupile again, I have a hard time believing people wouldn't take action. At that point we'd be clearly on the path to a country with 1% of the people being absurdly rich and 99% of the people living in poverty with no hope of ever making it in to that 1%. This is a great country and I do not believe the people would let it collapse into that.
    I agree, I think we will see an economic reordering after the Great Recession as we did after the Great Depression, and for mostly the same reasons.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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