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Thread: U.S. jobs crisis may get bloody; Bloomberg, experts warn of riots

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    Re: U.S. jobs crisis may get bloody; Bloomberg, experts warn of riots

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The curretn regime has passed far too many regulations.
    It's not a matter of number. Never will be. It's a matter or necessary and reasonable or not.



    If I didn't have to pay heavy road use taxes, fuel taxes, FET on tires and IRP registration, I would have more money in my pocket to re-invest in my business; pay for some health insurance for my employees; buy more equipment, thereby creating jobs.

    When someone speaks of taxes, it's erroneous to assume that he is speaking strictly of income taxes.
    Studies show no matter how reasonable that sounds, it doesn't work that way. Give business more money, they pocket it. Only when and if they have reason to believe something will sell or make money will they invest, taxes be damned.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: U.S. jobs crisis may get bloody; Bloomberg, experts warn of riots

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It's not a matter of number. Never will be. It's a matter or necessary and reasonable or not.
    The drilling moratorium is purdy unreasonable, do you think?





    Studies show no matter how reasonable that sounds, it doesn't work that way. Give business more money, they pocket it. Only when and if they have reason to believe something will sell or make money will they invest, taxes be damned.
    Oh, the madness!
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: U.S. jobs crisis may get bloody; Bloomberg, experts warn of riots

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The drilling moratorium is purdy unreasonable, do you think?
    No, I don't. Explain why you think it is.





    Oh, the madness!
    Not madness, but economics and reality.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: U.S. jobs crisis may get bloody; Bloomberg, experts warn of riots

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, I don't. Explain why you think it is.
    Oh, I dunno...because of all the jobs it killed and the damage that that is doing to the economy?







    Not madness, but economics and reality.
    I was being sarcastic. Economic reality is showing us that a regime that over-regulates private business is going to kill jobs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: U.S. jobs crisis may get bloody; Bloomberg, experts warn of riots

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Oh, I dunno...because of all the jobs it killed and the damage that that is doing to the economy?

    So, the reason for the regulation doesn't matter? Is that your position? Does it ever matter?





    I was being sarcastic. Economic reality is showing us that a regime that over-regulates private business is going to kill jobs.
    No, you're making a leap, an unsupported leap. If putting lead in our peanut butter is dangerous, but cheaper, and provided jobs to the lead in peanut butter folks, a huge industry, should we not regulate the lead in peanut butter? While I purposeful provide an extreme example (though we did have a peanut butter problem), can you acknowledge that a regulation may be needed even if it costs jobs?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: U.S. jobs crisis may get bloody; Bloomberg, experts warn of riots

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    More costly regulations and more taxes take money out of the working man's pocket, everyday.
    regulations are a cost of business
    if the business cannot make a sufficient gross profit to incur the expense of compliance with those regulations, then the business is not viable
    but i will acknowledge there is the potential that there are regulations that are not needed, which would then elevate the cost of doing business above the level it should ordinarily be. but i am about to show you why this 'excessive regulation' refrain is actually a reich wing dog whistle. i am going to show you that you will be unable to identify for us any unnecessary regulation which imposes an unneeded burden on the cost of doing business. so, prove me wrong and show us this list of regulations which are not necessary and tell us why they should be found excessive
    your failing to do so will prove my point ... that this dog won't hunt

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    More costly regulations and more taxes take money out of the working man's pocket, everyday.
    like regulatory compliance, the taxes paid by a business have nothing to do with what is paid to an employee. there is no nexus between profitability and established compensation
    i will caveat that statement immediately above to say it is in correct in one instance: where the business (such as nucor) compensates its employees based on profitability. but because such instances of that form of compensation are so rare, your conclusion must be found bogus

    what is actually true is that the government requires a specific amount of money annually. and whatever is not paid by the high end earners will ultimately have to be paid by the remaining taxpayers who are reaping much less from our capitalistic system

    let me also note that business enjoys an array of tax deductions that the wage earner can only dream about. assets acquired in 2011 can be depreciated 100% in that same tax year. in comparison, the wage earner cannot write off the computer they bought, or the car they acquired, against income; (hell, they can't even deduct the real - and significant - depreciation of their homes.) this is but a single example to show that the tax system is heavily tilted in the favor of business ... such that the wage earner - denied such tax breaks - will have to pay more to cover the tax write offs given to businesses and their owners
    but, like you, most wage earners are woefully ignorant of that imbalance
    if they knew the reality of the tax system, they would become business owners/independent contractors

    I think before the Left starts promoting the idea of the working class rioting, they must first think about is imposing the taxes and the regulations.
    i have modified this statement to turn it around on you:
    I think before the Left [reich wing] starts promoting the idea of the working class rioting, they must first think about is imposing the taxes and the regulations.

    i look forward to seeing your extensive list of unneeded regulations
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: U.S. jobs crisis may get bloody; Bloomberg, experts warn of riots

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    So, the reason for the regulation doesn't matter? Is that your position? Does it ever matter?
    Of course it matters, but the reason for the regulation has to 1) be reasonable and 2) do more good than harm to the country. The drilling ban isn't either.







    No, you're making a leap, an unsupported leap. If putting lead in our peanut butter is dangerous, but cheaper, and provided jobs to the lead in peanut butter folks, a huge industry, should we not regulate the lead in peanut butter? While I purposeful provide an extreme example (though we did have a peanut butter problem), can you acknowledge that a regulation may be needed even if it costs jobs?
    Is the peanut butter industry going to be shut down because of that regulation? It isn't, is it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: U.S. jobs crisis may get bloody; Bloomberg, experts warn of riots

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    regulations are a cost of business
    if the business cannot make a sufficient gross profit to incur the expense of compliance with those regulations, then the business is not viable
    but i will acknowledge there is the potential that there are regulations that are not needed, which would then elevate the cost of doing business above the level it should ordinarily be. but i am about to show you why this 'excessive regulation' refrain is actually a reich wing dog whistle. i am going to show you that you will be unable to identify for us any unnecessary regulation which imposes an unneeded burden on the cost of doing business. so, prove me wrong and show us this list of regulations which are not necessary and tell us why they should be found excessive
    your failing to do so will prove my point ... that this dog won't hunt


    like regulatory compliance, the taxes paid by a business have nothing to do with what is paid to an employee. there is no nexus between profitability and established compensation
    i will caveat that statement immediately above to say it is in correct in one instance: where the business (such as nucor) compensates its employees based on profitability. but because such instances of that form of compensation are so rare, your conclusion must be found bogus

    what is actually true is that the government requires a specific amount of money annually. and whatever is not paid by the high end earners will ultimately have to be paid by the remaining taxpayers who are reaping much less from our capitalistic system

    let me also note that business enjoys an array of tax deductions that the wage earner can only dream about. assets acquired in 2011 can be depreciated 100% in that same tax year. in comparison, the wage earner cannot write off the computer they bought, or the car they acquired, against income; (hell, they can't even deduct the real - and significant - depreciation of their homes.) this is but a single example to show that the tax system is heavily tilted in the favor of business ... such that the wage earner - denied such tax breaks - will have to pay more to cover the tax write offs given to businesses and their owners
    but, like you, most wage earners are woefully ignorant of that imbalance
    if they knew the reality of the tax system, they would become business owners/independent contractors



    i have modified this statement to turn it around on you:



    i look forward to seeing your extensive list of unneeded regulations
    It doesn't matter if a regulation kills jobs?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: U.S. jobs crisis may get bloody; Bloomberg, experts warn of riots

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Of course it matters, but the reason for the regulation has to 1) be reasonable and 2) do more good than harm to the country. The drilling ban isn't either.

    Then that is what you have to show, that it is unreasonable, which I think you would fail at, and that it does more harm than good. How did that entire spill thing work out for business in the Gulf?




    Is the peanut butter industry going to be shut down because of that regulation? It isn't, is it?
    This is completely nonresponsive. Answer the point.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: U.S. jobs crisis may get bloody; Bloomberg, experts warn of riots

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Of course it matters, but the reason for the regulation has to 1) be reasonable and 2) do more good than harm to the country. The drilling ban isn't either.









    Is the peanut butter industry going to be shut down because of that regulation? It isn't, is it?
    BTW:

    But the report found no large increases in unemployment claims, thanks in part to a big hiring push for cleanup crews and massive spending by BP on the recovery effort.

    Drilling Moratorium Hasn't Cost Any Jobs In The Gulf, Feds Say

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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