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Thread: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

  1. #81
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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Yes, revenue is needed to run the govt. Today that requirement is 3.7 trillion dollars so explain why? How much of the current govt. is duplicated at the state and local levels. I have posted many times what I would do. First remove SS and Medicare from the Budget, second cut the size of the govt then down to 1.5 trillion dollars by eliminating all duplicated expenses.
    You're arguing a strawman. I'm not supporting larger government. I'm in support of a functional government. To have a function government, we need to fund it. That's it. There's no more to it than that. I agree we have fat to trim. I'm definitely pro-cost cutting but I'm not for starving the beast as it was that so-called beast that enable the rich to become so. Cutting that makes it harder for those seeking wealth to get there.
    Show me one comment made by a Republican or Conservative attacking income earned by a Democrat like Feinstein, Kerry, Boxer, etc?
    Asking for them to pay their fair share isn't an attack.
    So let me see if I have this right, Republicans spent too much so you have no problem with Democrats spending more?
    Democrats don't spend more. Did you not get my point the first time? Republicans presidents have historically been the budget busters, not Democrats. Do you disagree with that fact?
    By what standards hasn't trickle down worked. Reagan double Govt. revenue, doubled GDP, and created 17 million jobs.
    And increased the budget deficit which is the beginning of our current debt problem. He achieved your so-called success by selling our future and the future of our children. If you don't consider a problem, why are you upset with Obama and concerned about the debt now?
    Iraq and Afghanistan cost 1.4 trillion dollars in 10 years. Deduct that from the 14.6 trillion dollar debt and you still have 13.2 trillion dollar debt. iraq and Afghanistan are winding down so why do we need a 3.7 trillion dollar budget.
    1.4 trillion of borrowed money. You're okay with that? If so, you can't be a hypocrite and complain about Obama deficit spending.
    Giving billionaires a better tax rate means they get to keep more of what they have earned. Why is that a problem for you? Govt has already wasted resources by putting too much power at the Federal level. What does a bureacrat know about education problems in your city?
    We all need to contribute to our country equally if possible. If the poor do not have the means I'll give them a pass as they can't afford it. Millionaries and billionaries have no excuse for not equally contributing to America's success.
    Why are you even comparing SS with cutting regulations and "giving" handouts to business? They aren't even in the same category and what exactly is the govt. giving business? It is their money before it ever goes to the govt.
    I'm not comparing anything. Just pointing out what I find important against what I do not find important.
    You really have been brainwashed and that is sad.
    This is just your way of putting your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes and going "lalalalalala!" to avoid hearing (reading) the truth. I get it.
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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You are kidding, right? No better than Obama? Get your union steward to explain it to you.
    i'm sorry that my question is so hard for you to give a straight answer to, but do try to give an answer, and dispense with the attempted baiting/trolling....again, if both are equally bad, why does the GOP get your vote? difficult question for you to answer, but do try.

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Yet during the Bush years when the Republicans controlled the WH and Congress the deficit was less than when the Democrats controlled the Congress and when they Democrats controlled the Congress and the WH. How is re-electing Obama going to put 25 million unemployed and under employed Americans back to work and actually cut the size of govt?
    How is electing Republicans going to cut the size? Bush grew the government by leaps and bounds. Obama carried on the tradition. Big spending, big deficit, big wars, big brother government; y'all are the same.

    You keep saying "How is re-electing Obama" blah blah blah like your side will do the opposite. But your side has not done the opposite, it was done the same thing. So maybe you'll grow the government at a slower rate than the Democrats; but you're still growing the government.

    When was the last time conservatives DECREASED the size of government?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    no, the graph stops in 2005 because that's when it stops.
    Ok, well the new one you posted shows what we need to know- revenue did in fact plummet after 2005 as we continued to lower taxes on the rich.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    however, if we are looking at revenue as a % of GDP, and what causes it to move up and down, then the answer is actually rather simple. It is the relative size of government. Government, you see, does not tax itself quite like it taxes production, labor, and investment - so, as government expands as a share of GDP, revenue is being drawn from a smaller slice of the pie, and so it shrinks as a share of GDP. Observe:
    So raising taxes, but keeping the size of government constant would result in more revenue. Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    yes and no - they are an indirect determinate of revenue. mostly inasmuch as they alter GDP by altering the amount of time people spend doing productive things v spending trying to minimize their tax exposure.
    Are you saying that cheating on taxes takes up so much time that people are less productive? And you think that is a significant factor?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    that is also what we have seen for the past couple of decades. In 2006, for example, our savings rate hit the lowest point it has been since 1933. Are you saying that in 2006 the tax rates on the top of the spectrum were too high, and the ones on the bottom too low?
    Consumers spending all their money, or more money than they have, and not being able to save anything is definitely a byproduct of directing too much of the money away from regular people and into the pockets of the super rich instead. They don't have enough money to sustain their lifestyle, so they borrow. That stat is about the rate of PERSONAL savings. That isn't big investors, that's people saving up for their kids college and whatnot. That is what is getting squeezed- regular people.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    a long period of historically low unemployment?
    Uh, no, the collapse of the economy. Again, Reagan's cuts worked. Clinton's first round of cuts worked. But Clinton's second round of cuts and Bush's cuts were both just followed by bubbles, not sustainable growth. That's why we are where we are today- those bubbles bursting.

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    How is re-electing Obama going to put 25 million unemployed and under employed Americans back to work and actually cut the size of govt?
    It's not, but then again neither is any of that going to happen with a GOP candidate. Welcome to your two party system of whos going to drive America into the gutter faster.

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Tettsuo;1059807583]You're arguing a strawman. I'm not supporting larger government. I'm in support of a functional government. To have a function government, we need to fund it. That's it. There's no more to it than that. I agree we have fat to trim. I'm definitely pro-cost cutting but I'm not for starving the beast as it was that so-called beast that enable the rich to become so. Cutting that makes it harder for those seeking wealth to get there.
    In order to define the amount of revenue the govt. needs you first need to define the role of the govt. Here are the line item expenses and the amount spent in 2010. What would you elliminate?


    Expenses

    Defense 696.1
    International Affairs 45.2
    Gen. Science, Space 30.9
    Energy 11.5
    Natural resources/env 41,6
    Agriculture 23.2
    Commerce -82.9
    Transportation 92.5
    Community Dev 24.9
    Education/Train/Social 125.1
    Health 369.0
    Medicare 451.6
    Income Security 624.0
    Social Security 706.7
    Veterans Benefits 108.4
    Justice 55.2
    General Govt. 18.1
    Net Interest 196.9

    So start here and eliminate the duplicate expenses paid at the state level. Further tell me what an increase in Federal Taxes does to state tax revenue?

    Asking for them to pay their fair share isn't an attack.
    Still waiting for a definition of fair share? Do you think millions of Americans not paying any FIT is their fair share? If you are going to use fair share then use the term fairly.

    Democrats don't spend more. Did you not get my point the first time? Republicans presidents have historically been the budget busters, not Democrats. Do you disagree with that fact?
    There is no excuse for what Obama has done, he had total control of the Govt. in 2009 and 2010 so what did he do to spending? Democrats controlled the purse strings from 2007-2011 and what did they do with spending? The 2009 budget was Democrat supported and passed.

    And increased the budget deficit which is the beginning of our current debt problem. He achieved your so-called success by selling our future and the future of our children. If you don't consider a problem, why are you upset with Obama and concerned about the debt now?
    In order to understand the Reagan deficits you need to understand the economic conditions and control of Congress during the Reagan years. I don't think anyone can justify 4 trillion added to the debt in 3 years by complaining about a 1.7 trillion debt in 8 years.

    1.4 trillion of borrowed money. You're okay with that? If so, you can't be a hypocrite and complain about Obama deficit spending.
    No, I am not ok with 1.4 trillion in borrowed money, why did Obama expand the role in Afghanistan and what do we have to show for it? 1.4 trillion is 140 billion a year. This years deficit will be 1.3 trillion or more so what would a reduction of 140 billion do?

    We all need to contribute to our country equally if possible. If the poor do not have the means I'll give them a pass as they can't afford it. Millionaries and billionaries have no excuse for not equally contributing to America's success.
    Still wating for someone, anyone that supports Obama to explain "fair share?" is it fair share for 47% of income earners to pay NOTHING? Is it fair share for promoting class warfare?

    I'm not comparing anything. Just pointing out what I find important against what I do not find important.
    That isn't what your post stated, anytime you talk about SS and Medicare along with other budget items you are comparing the two.

    This is just your way of putting your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes and going "lalalalalala!" to avoid hearing (reading) the truth. I get it.
    Seems that is what liberals are doing with everything Obama says, ignoring the consequences of the rhetoric and the lies being promoted. You have yet to refute anything I posted. What I have posted is verifiable facts, what Obama has spouted if verifiable bull****.

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    How is re-electing Obama going to put 25 million unemployed and under employed Americans back to work and actually cut the size of govt?
    No president can just fix this deep of an economic hole by themselves overnight. This kind of recession takes many years to correct.

    People are mad that Obama isn't fixing the problems created by Republicans fast enough, but is just going back to creating more new problems better? That would be like getting shot, going in to the doctor, getting mad that they aren't treating you quickly enough, so you go back to the guy that shot you and ask for them to shoot you some more...

    chart-job-growth-bush-obama.jpg

    0831-sbn-webVIEW.gif
    Last edited by teamosil; 09-19-11 at 02:09 PM.

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    It's not, but then again neither is any of that going to happen with a GOP candidate. Welcome to your two party system of whos going to drive America into the gutter faster.
    Great, let's elect a third party candidate, who would that be and what power would they have with a Congress of Democrats and Republicans? Name for me a successful third party Governor?

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    No president can just fix this deep of an economic hole by themselves overnight. This kind of recession takes many years to correct.

    People are mad that Obama isn't fixing the problems created by Republicans fast enough, but is just going back to creating more new problems better? That would be like getting shot, going in to the doctor, getting mad that they aren't treating you quickly enough, so you go back to the guy that shot you and ask for them to shoot you some more...

    chart-job-growth-bush-obama.jpg
    What you are posting is gross job growth not net job growth which is still negative from when he took over and after spending over a trillion dollars. Stop buying the rhetoric and get the facts. More people are dropping out of the labor force than at any time in U.S. history and we count employment and unemployed differently these days thanks to Clinton in 1994. Discouraged workers are dropped from both employment and unemployment roles thus are no loner counted. The real unemployment rate is 16.2% according to bls.gov.

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Great, let's elect a third party candidate, who would that be and what power would they have with a Congress of Democrats and Republicans? Name for me a successful third party Governor?
    No President in modern history has ever had 25 plus million unemployed and under employed and no President in modern history has ever added 4 trillion to the debt in 3 years. How is that not worse than any Republican?

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