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Thread: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

  1. #41
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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    good for you. sadly, you are not representative (as I understand it) of Americans as a whole over the past half-century. Seat-belts did the same thing.


    mandating the use of seat belts in 18 countries resulted in either no change or actually a net increase in road accident deaths.

    ...John Adams, risk expert and emeritus professor of geography at University College London... interpretation of the data rests on the notion of risk compensation, the idea that individuals tend to adjust their behavior in response to what they perceive as changes in the level of risk...

    drivers who feel safe may actually increase the risk that they pose to other drivers, bicyclists, pedestrians and their own passengers (while an average of 80% of drivers buckle up, only 68% of their rear-seat passengers do). And risk compensation is hardly confined to the act of driving a car. Think of a trapeze artist, suggests Adams, or a rock climber, motorcyclist or college kid on a hot date. Add some safety equipment to the equation — a net, rope, helmet or a condom respectively — and the person may try maneuvers that he or she would otherwise consider foolish. In the case of seat belts, instead of a simple, straightforward reduction in deaths, the end result is actually a more complicated redistribution of risk and fatalities....
    and so on. we're a funny ole species, humans.
    Last edited by cpwill; 09-19-11 at 09:44 AM.

  2. #42
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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    The GOP has just proven again it is not serious about fixing the problem.

    If either side is to be serious about this NOTHING should be off the table and everything on the table needs to be justified as to why we need it and the ramifications of getting rid of it if we had to.

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    nothing should be off the table? if the democrats propose nuking china so as to cancel our debt to them, should Republicans seek to compromise on only taking out their eastern seaboard?


    I'm just curious at what point you would agree that really stupid ideas that will actually destroy wealth, growth, and employment should, indeed, actually "be off the table".

  4. #44
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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I love charts

    First we see the explosion in reckless, world-destabilizing military-industrial complex spending by Reagan-Bush (1980-1992).

    Then we see the sensible increase in revenues, combined with a responsible reduction in spending, during the Clinton administration (1992-2000).

    Then we see Bush Jr. embark on the clearly irresponsible path of the GOP God (Reagan), cutting taxes and starting wars (2000-2008). Of course, revenues plummet and spending spikes. Then, towards the end of his administration, the easy-money / loose-regulation ideology of the GOP implodes the economy, causing revenues to again plummet (from a modest recovery) and causing spending to skyrocket as multi-national Wall Street corporations must be bailed out in order to prevent absolute economic ruin.

    And the GOP has the audacity to even run a candidate for president

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    nothing should be off the table? if the democrats propose nuking china so as to cancel our debt to them, should Republicans seek to compromise on only taking out their eastern seaboard?
    What a moronic comment from you that proves just why the GOP are idiots. Anything to try and deflect from the main idea and score political points that mean jack ****.

    I'm just curious at what point you would agree that really stupid ideas that will actually destroy wealth, growth, and employment should, indeed, actually "be off the table".
    Comparing nuking China with raising taxes. Again your comments are idiotic and only prove you and the GOP just want YOUR sacred cows protected at all costs, even at the countries demise.

    The GOP is not taking this seriously at all. If the Dems go in demanding things should be off the table, I'll say the sane thing about them that they aren't serious.

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    The GOP is not taking this seriously at all. If the Dems go in demanding things should be off the table, I'll say the sane thing about them that they aren't serious.
    Pelosi: My Deficit Committee Members Will Oppose All Entitlement Benefit Cuts

    Pelosi: My Deficit Committee Members Will Oppose All Entitlement Benefit Cuts | TPMDC

  7. #47
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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Why? Because things would then be so much simplier. We could cut the IRS way back. Politicians would no longer be able to promise all these cuts for votes.

    0-25,000 FLAT 2%
    25-50,000 FLAT 12%
    50-100,000 FLAT 15%
    100-250,000 Flat 18%

    Etc, Etc, Etc. (numbers only used for the example, I don't know what they would be exactly)

    What is wrong with that?
    Well, for one, you have either just proposed a progressive tax system, such as we have with new rates and new brackets and fewer deductions.... or you have proposed a very, very bad plan where the $1,000 that takes you from $49,500 to $50,500 is taxed at 165% (tax at $49,500 would be $5,940; tax at $50,500 would be $7,575, hence the tax on the $1000 increment would be $1,635).

    If you are proposing the progressive, your brackets make no sense (I realize you made no such representation that they did)... as people grossing $50K do not have an extra $5000 to pay income taxes. What about married couples? Do they file joint returns had have all of the income incremental at a much higher bracket? Are we considering family situations exactly the equivalent of singles, meaning it pays big time to stay single and big time to not have children. Realize also, that in the current form, when people talk about taxing those making $250K, they are really talking about TAXABLE income of $250K.... their real income (because of exemptions, deductions and credits) to get to $250K of taxable income is likely north of $325K or $350K as a large % of everyone's income is currently exempt from income taxes.

    If what you are proposing is step-up rates, but flat taxes... what a mess! Someone, per my example above, would refuse to work (at least on the books) that overtime that would take him from $49,500 to $50,500 as it would cost him money. You would have people behaving badly, economically speaking, because of the affects of certain desired activities on their personal tax situation...

    As much as people have this notion that families making less than $50K per year should pay income tax, they just don't have any money. Sorry, there is something economically wrong (you will further contract the economy, as they spend all their money... you would create reverse stimulus if their dollar went to Washington rather than the neighborhood Safeway) and morally wrong. This group already pays more then their share of payroll taxes, sales taxes and use taxes (as a percentage of their income) then their more affluent neighbor. Cut them some slack here.

    ... some quick "what's wrong with that" thoughts...

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Pelosi: My Deficit Committee Members Will Oppose All Entitlement Benefit Cuts

    Pelosi: My Deficit Committee Members Will Oppose All Entitlement Benefit Cuts | TPMDC
    And that is just as wrong. It's showing that they are not wanting to fix the problem, they only want to pander to their base.

    I dont see how anyone Dem or Rep can support what their side is doing.

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    good for you. sadly, you are not representative (as I understand it) of Americans as a whole over the past half-century. Seat-belts did the same thing.




    and so on. we're a funny ole species, humans.
    Probably the wrong place to have this conversation.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Well, for one, you have either just proposed a progressive tax system, such as we have with new rates and new brackets and fewer deductions.... or you have proposed a very, very bad plan where the $1,000 that takes you from $49,500 to $50,500 is taxed at 165% (tax at $49,500 would be $5,940; tax at $50,500 would be $7,575, hence the tax on the $1000 increment would be $1,635).
    numbers only used for the example, I don't know what they would be exactly

    If what you are proposing is step-up rates, but flat taxes... what a mess! Someone, per my example above, would refuse to work (at least on the books) that overtime that would take him from $49,500 to $50,500 as it would cost him money. You would have people behaving badly, economically speaking, because of the affects of certain desired activities on their personal tax situation...
    Because we don't have brackets today?

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