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Thread: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    I support everyone pay a flat percentage of their income. As simple as that. There is nothing else to it.
    So, if you made $9,500 you would pay 15% on all $9,500? And have no deductions for anything. Right?

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    It's an awfully big coincidence that your graph happens to stop right before the whole reaganomics house of cards came so obviously and devastatingly crashing down eh?
    no, the graph stops in 2005 because that's when it stops. however, if we are looking at revenue as a % of GDP, and what causes it to move up and down, then the answer is actually rather simple. It is the relative size of government. Government, you see, does not tax itself quite like it taxes production, labor, and investment - so, as government expands as a share of GDP, revenue is being drawn from a smaller slice of the pie, and so it shrinks as a share of GDP. Observe:



    1963: Spending drops slightly, revenue increases slightly
    1967: Spending increases, revenue drops
    1968: Spending drops, revenue increases
    1970: Spending increases, revenue drops
    1973: Spending drops, revenue increase
    1974: Spending increases, revenue drops
    1976: Spending drops, revenue increases
    1979-80: Spending increases, Revenue drops
    1983: Spending begins to decrease, Revenue begins to increase
    2000: Spending begins to increase again, Revenue begins to decrease again
    2004: Spending slightly decreases, revenue increases
    2008: Spending explodes, revenues plummet


    Obviously tax rates are a huge determinate of revenue
    yes and no - they are an indirect determinate of revenue. mostly inasmuch as they alter GDP by altering the amount of time people spend doing productive things v spending trying to minimize their tax exposure.

    When you tax the top of the spectrum heavily, and the bottom not enough, you get high consumer spending, low investment. That is bad for the economy.
    that is also what we have seen for the past couple of decades. In 2006, for example, our savings rate hit the lowest point it has been since 1933. Are you saying that in 2006 the tax rates on the top of the spectrum were too high, and the ones on the bottom too low?

    I tend to suspect that an easy-money-cheap-debt monetary policy and the assumption that everyones' houses and government programs would be our permanent perfect nest eggs had more to do with it.

    That's what we had under Carter and Reagan wisely adjusted it so that it was more balance. But people got caught up in the hype and made overly simplistic conclusions from that experience. They assumed that all cuts of taxes on the rich were therefore good for the economy. That, of course, is not true. Clinton and Bush2 both continued cutting taxes on the super rich to a much greater degree and we saw what happened.
    a long period of historically low unemployment?

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by vvx View Post
    So using your earlier numbers, if I make $24,999 I would pay $500 tax. If I make $25,001 I would pay $3,000 tax. Am I understanding correctly?
    If you actually read my post you would note that my percentages were only used as an example. That I didn't know exactly what percentages would be used.

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    So, if you made $9,500 you would pay 15% on all $9,500? And have no deductions for anything. Right?
    There would be no deductions.

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    There would be no deductions.
    In other words you support tax raising... tsk
    PeteEU

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by vvx View Post
    So using your earlier numbers, if I make $24,999 I would pay $500 tax. If I make $25,001 I would pay $3,000 tax. Am I understanding correctly?
    LOL that is stupid to say the least.... no one would want to earn more than 24,999..
    PeteEU

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    no, the graph stops in 2005 because that's when it stops. however, if we are looking at revenue as a % of GDP, and what causes it to move up and down, then the answer is actually rather simple. It is the relative size of government. Government, you see, does not tax itself quite like it taxes production, labor, and investment - so, as government expands as a share of GDP, revenue is being drawn from a smaller slice of the pie, and so it shrinks as a share of GDP.
    Right, and airbags deploying cause car accidents. They must, because just look at the correlation.

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    LOL that is stupid to say the least.... no one would want to earn more than 24,999..
    not at all - simply make it all marginal.

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Right, and airbags deploying cause car accidents.
    sadly, the prevalence of airbags (and other safety devices) can be demonstrated to contribute to car crashes; as we feel safer, we take more chances.

    the trend is clear - grow government as a % of GDP, and watch Revenue fall as a % of GDP. Shrink Government as a share of GDP, and watch Revenue Rise.

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    sadly, the prevalence of airbags (and other safety devices) can be demonstrated to contribute to car crashes; as we feel safer, we take more chances.the trend is clear - grow government as a % of GDP, and watch Revenue fall as a % of GDP. Shrink Government as a share of GDP, and watch Revenue Rise.
    Sorry, but I can't agree with this at all. I work in this field. I also own cars with and without airbags. I don't change my driving based on the car I'm in.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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