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Thread: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

  1. #191
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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    teamosil;1059808520]No, that just isn't how it works. We don't settle all accounts every day, we have rounds where we sell a bunch of bonds to get us through a while, then we don't need to sell any for a while, then we do again. It isn't a daily process, it's typically more like 4 times a year.

    I am getting the strong impression that you are just making assumptions about all this stuff and blurting it out like your assumptions are fact...

    You continue to prove over and over again that liberals ahve no clue. You have never looked at the budget of the United States nor do you understand debt service and where it comes from. Keep digging that hole deeper

  2. #192
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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You continue to prove over and over again that liberals ahve no clue. You have never looked at the budget of the United States nor do you understand debt service and where it comes from. Keep digging that hole deeper
    I'm going to go ahead and wager that you don't know what debt service is because you're using it incorrectly.

  3. #193
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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Yes it does, you just don't understand the data that was posted nor do you understand debt service but that doesn't stop you from calling me a liar. You and Sheik are quite a pair. So, does your deficit or surplus come from another source than your bank? As stated, you don't have a clue how CBO works and that is embarrassing.
    No, it doesn't. For God's sake just admit you were wrong and move on. Everyone knows that you are wrong. You aren't fooling anyone. You're just making yourself look like an idiot.

  4. #194
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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    No, it doesn't. For God's sake just admit you were wrong and move on. Everyone knows that you are wrong. You aren't fooling anyone. You're just making yourself look like an idiot.
    Everyone? LOL, only the left here that cannot admit they are wrong. FACT debt went up every year including all those years of the supposed Clinton surpluses. Too bad liberals dont have a clue as to what makes up the national debt. Doesn't stop you from spreading misinformation.

    Suggest you get the facts

    What the U.S. National Debt Is:

    (Updated August 10, 2011) The U.S. debt is over $14.5 trillion, and is the sum of all outstanding debt owed by the Federal Government. Nearly two-thirds is the public debt, which is owed to the people, businesses and foreign governments who bought Treasury bills, notes and bonds.

    The rest is owed by the government to itself, and is held as Government Account securities. Most of this is owed to Social Security and other trust funds, which were running surpluses. These securities are a promise to repay these funds when Baby Boomers retire over the next 20 years. (Source: U.S. Treasury, Debt to the Penny; Debt FAQ)

  5. #195
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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    wash, rinse, repeat...same ol' same ol'....
    Exactly!
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  6. #196
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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    You have not made the argument that cutting the size of govt is "right".

    Historically, the "size" of govt, as you seem to be measuring it, has been about 20% of GDP. Is that "size" the correct one? Or do you want it smaller? (and if so, why is that "right"?)
    it should be smaller. because revenue is around 19% of GDP - and we need expenditures to run underneath revenue for a while.

  7. #197
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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Ok, well the new one you posted shows what we need to know- revenue did in fact plummet after 2005 as we continued to lower taxes on the rich.
    that is incorrect- revenue continued to climb after 2005 (in fact, it reached historic post-war high's as a % of GDP), and then plummeted as we decided to rapidly expand government in response to the crash of 2008/2009.

    So raising taxes, but keeping the size of government constant would result in more revenue. Right?
    no. because the highest we've ever raised in revenue was 20% of GDP - and we did that with lower taxes and higher growth. furthermore, increased government (as demonstrated) depresses revenues - so you have to cut government in order to increase revenues. the two are inversely linked.

    Are you saying that cheating on taxes takes up so much time that people are less productive?
    it's not cheating for one to pursue deductions, credits, shelters, and the like - after all, Obama himself seems to have taken quite a bit advantage of such things.

    And you think that is a significant factor?
    i think that people respond to incentives - and when you create a massive incentive to minimize tax exposure, you will get people willing to take massive action to do so.

    Consumers spending all their money, or more money than they have, and not being able to save anything is definitely a byproduct of directing too much of the money away from regular people and into the pockets of the super rich instead.
    wtf? people acting stupidly is the fault of those who act intelligently?

    They don't have enough money to sustain their lifestyle, so they borrow.
    that, at least, is correct.

    the problem is their lifestyle not matching their income.

    "oh don't worry honey - house prices will always go up. let's just take out all our equity in an adjustable rate second home mortgage and use the money to go on vacation to the bahama's and then buy you a new car and me a new flatscreen."

    That stat is about the rate of PERSONAL savings. That isn't big investors, that's people saving up for their kids college and whatnot. That is what is getting squeezed- regular people.
    if their belts are feeling squeezed, it's because they eat too much; their consumption is higher than is good for them.

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Why? Because things would then be so much simplier. We could cut the IRS way back. Politicians would no longer be able to promise all these cuts for votes.

    0-25,000 FLAT 2%
    25-50,000 FLAT 12%
    50-100,000 FLAT 15%
    100-250,000 Flat 18%

    Etc, Etc, Etc. (numbers only used for the example, I don't know what they would be exactly)

    What is wrong with that?
    What's the difference between this and progressive tax rates?
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    perhaps you can show me where we had a reduction of revenue?



    because I'm not seeing it.
    If the percentage stays the same that means that the actual numbers stayed the same? If not, then what is your graph supposed to show?

    It seems to me, imho, that 9/12 is the same percentage as 3/4. But in the latter, the quantity is much lower. ymmv. Couldn't it be that the revenue as a percentage of GDP could remain more or less the same while actual revenue and GDP decrease? Am I mistaken about the math?

    Maybe if we looked at a different statistic we could find something more illuminating about the net change in receipts. idk. What do you think?
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    If the percentage stays the same that means that the actual numbers stayed the same? If not, then what is your graph supposed to show?
    the percentage doesn't stay the same - it varies within a historical range of about 1-1.5%. The graphs point out that it doesn't matter what the income tax rates on the wealthy are - given a government of about 19-20% of GDP, you're going to get about 18.5-19.5% of GDP in revenue.

    It seems to me, imho, that 9/12 is the same percentage as 3/4. But in the latter, the quantity is much lower. ymmv. Couldn't it be that the revenue as a percentage of GDP could remain more or less the same while actual revenue and GDP decrease? Am I mistaken about the math?
    revenue goes up at roughly the same rate that GDP goes up, yes. dependent, again, on the relative size of government.

    Maybe if we looked at a different statistic we could find something more illuminating about the net change in receipts. idk. What do you think?
    I would look to see a correlation between years of solid private sector growth and years of revenue increase, both in raw and whether or not it occurred as a share of GDP.

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