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Thread: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

  1. #141
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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    doesnt matter what their results were, they had the magical (R) next to their name, that is all that mattered.
    It is obvious to me that results don't matter to you because you never post any. Obama has been in office 2 1/2 years so what are his results over that period of time that justify re-election? He has an approval rating for 39% so the question is why?

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    You're arguing a strawman. I'm not supporting larger government. I'm in support of a functional government. To have a function government, we need to fund it. That's it. There's no more to it than that. I agree we have fat to trim. I'm definitely pro-cost cutting but I'm not for starving the beast as it was that so-called beast that enable the rich to become so. Cutting that makes it harder for those seeking wealth to get there.
    Starving the beast is usually a good idea, because beasts are bad.

  3. #143
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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And I have asked you now MULTIPLE TIMES, when was the last time conservatives reduced the size of government.
    Post 76 answered your question and post 77 was your response

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Post 76 answered your question and post 77 was your response
    OK, fair enough. Your answer to my question "When was the last time conservatives reduced the size of government" was that Republicans HAVE NOT reduced the size of government. Which is true. So if neither party is reducing the size of government, why should I promote one side of that government over the other? The status quo is as the status quo is. And if I do not like it, why is it then logical to support it?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    There is wide public support for raising taxes for the rich:

    19 Different Polls Show That Americans Support Tax Increases To Cut Deficit

    Here is just a sampling of the polls:

    "In the June 9 ABC News poll 61% of Americans believe higher taxes will be necessary to reduce the deficit, and 57% of those polled said that deficit reduction should include both tax increases and spending cuts.

    A Pew poll found that more people blame the nation’s involvement in wars than tax cuts or spending for the deficit. The poll also found wide support for increasing taxes, as 67% said the more high earners income should be subject to being taxed for Social Security, and 66% support raising taxes on incomes over $250,000, and 62% support closing corporate tax loopholes.

    A Bloomberg poll taken in May found that only 33% of those surveyed thought that it would be possible to lower the deficit without raising taxes, 64% expressed the belief that it isn’t possible to lower the deficit without raising taxes.

    An April CBS News/NY Times poll showed that 72% of people favored raising taxes on the wealthy in order to reduce the deficit. A March NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll found that 81% of those surveyed would support a tax on millionaires that would be used for deficit reduction, and 68% supported eliminating the Bush tax cuts on those who make over $250,000."

    To see the other poll results, see here:
    19 Different Polls Show That Americans Support Tax Increases To Cut Deficit
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  6. #146
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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Why? because FIT funds the Federal Govt. How have I distorted the figures? By the way what do you think a rise in Federal Income taxes are going to do to state tax revenue?
    No that's not true. The federal government also collects capital gains, corporate taxes, FICA, estate, gift and payroll taxes. FICA and payroll taxes are regressive. Capital gains is in reality regressive because it is a much, much, lower rate than the rate they tax wages at and the rich get a much larger percentage of their income through investment than other people do. Estate taxes are hard to classify. They only kick in after $2.5 million and they are a type of income that mostly is collected by the rich, so it is mostly a big fat tax exemption for the rich on a source of income. But, they do kick in above that again now that we let that part of the Bush tax handouts expire. So, I wouldn't really say it fits neatly in either regressive or progressive territory. Same with gifts. So 3 of the 4 federal taxes are regressive, but you just want to look at the 1 out of 4 that is progressive and draw conclusions based just on that?

    Not to even mention state taxes, which are much more regressive. Sales taxes are steeply regressive. Property, unemployment and disability taxes are all regressive. And most states either have no income tax, a flat income tax, or a marginally progressive income tax with maybe just two brackets, so they aren't even offsetting the regresiveness of their other taxes like the fed is trying to do. So, even just looking at all federal taxes is misleading, since the overall tax burden people face is much more regressive than just the federal part.

    So, statements like you made about "how can the Democrats say the rich aren't paying their fair share" that only cite to federal income taxes are at best misleading. Whether or not they're paying their fair share would depend on the percentage of ALL taxes that they pay- state, federal, income, sales, property, capital gains, FICA, etc.
    Last edited by teamosil; 09-19-11 at 05:28 PM.

  7. #147
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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    OK, fair enough. Your answer to my question "When was the last time conservatives reduced the size of government" was that Republicans HAVE NOT reduced the size of government. Which is true. So if neither party is reducing the size of government, why should I promote one side of that government over the other? The status quo is as the status quo is. And if I do not like it, why is it then logical to support it?
    Because the alternative is a lot worse and as long as Obama is the headliner that will be the case.

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    There is wide public support for raising taxes for the rich:

    19 Different Polls Show That Americans Support Tax Increases To Cut Deficit

    Here is just a sampling of the polls:

    "In the June 9 ABC News poll 61% of Americans believe higher taxes will be necessary to reduce the deficit, and 57% of those polled said that deficit reduction should include both tax increases and spending cuts.

    A Pew poll found that more people blame the nation’s involvement in wars than tax cuts or spending for the deficit. The poll also found wide support for increasing taxes, as 67% said the more high earners income should be subject to being taxed for Social Security, and 66% support raising taxes on incomes over $250,000, and 62% support closing corporate tax loopholes.

    A Bloomberg poll taken in May found that only 33% of those surveyed thought that it would be possible to lower the deficit without raising taxes, 64% expressed the belief that it isn’t possible to lower the deficit without raising taxes.

    An April CBS News/NY Times poll showed that 72% of people favored raising taxes on the wealthy in order to reduce the deficit. A March NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll found that 81% of those surveyed would support a tax on millionaires that would be used for deficit reduction, and 68% supported eliminating the Bush tax cuts on those who make over $250,000."

    To see the other poll results, see here:
    19 Different Polls Show That Americans Support Tax Increases To Cut Deficit
    Since when does more revenue lead to deficit reduction? History shows it leads to more spending. Let's see the spending cuts and put 25 million unemployed and under employed Americans back to work before raising taxes. Then take SS and Medicare off budget first, submit spending cuts back to at least 2008 levels, set up a fund for the revenue to go to deficit reduction and then I will consider tax cuts. Thanks for the polls though. Wonder how those 47% of income earners that don't pay any FIT voted in the polls?

  9. #149
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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    No that's not true. The federal government also collects capital gains, corporate taxes, FICA, estate, gift and payroll taxes. FICA and payroll taxes are regressive. Capital gains is in reality regressive because it is a much, much, lower rate than the rate they tax wages at and the rich get a much larger percentage of their income through investment than other people do. Estate taxes are hard to classify. They only kick in after $2.5 million and they are a type of income that mostly is collected by the rich, so it is mostly a big fat tax exemption for the rich on a source of income. But, they do kick in above that again now that we let that part of the Bush tax handouts expire. So, I wouldn't really say it fits neatly in either regressive or progressive territory. Same with gifts. So 3 of the 4 federal taxes are regressive, but you just want to look at the 1 out of 4 that is progressive and draw conclusions based just on that?

    Not to even mention state taxes, which are much more regressive. Sales taxes are steeply regressive. Property, unemployment and disability taxes are all regressive. And most states either have no income tax, a flat income tax, or a marginally progressive income tax with maybe just two brackets, so they aren't even offsetting the regresiveness of their other taxes like the fed is trying to do. So, even just looking at all federal taxes is misleading, since the overall tax burden people face is much more regressive than just the federal part.

    So, statements like you made about "how can the Democrats say the rich aren't paying their fair share" that only cite to federal income taxes are at best misleading. Whether or not they're paying their fair share would depend on the percentage of ALL taxes that they pay- state, federal, income, sales, property, capital gains, FICA, etc.
    FICA funds SS and Medicare, FIT is the largest tax revenue source of the Federal govt. followed by Corporate taxes, and Excise taxes. FICA shouldn't have anything to do with the funding of the Govt.

    Still waiting for your definition of fair share that the rich should pay? Think that those income earners who aren't paying any FIT are paying their fair share? Where is your outrage?

  10. #150
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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Because the alternative is a lot worse and as long as Obama is the headliner that will be the case.
    Actually, recent history has shown us that any Republican president is bad for the country as long as they tow the Republican mantra of trickle down/supply side economics.

    Until Republicans find a new way to address issued other than cut taxes and reduce regulations, I'll continue to vote Democrat. Their was is proven to not do what they claim it will.

    It would certainly be better if a 3rd party was available and had viable ideas, but as of right now, it doesn't exist.
    A man without fear is a fool, a man that succumbs to his fear is a coward and a brave man acknowledges fear yet presses on.
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