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Thread: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    No President in modern history has ever had 25 plus million unemployed and under employed and no President in modern history has ever added 4 trillion to the debt in 3 years. How is that not worse than any Republican?
    republicans grow the government as well, but you continue to vote for them...what inspires such blind loyalty from you? why don't you hold them accountable? why not apply the same standard to republicans that you do democrats? why the double standard?

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    What you are posting is gross job growth not net job growth which is still negative from when he took over and after spending over a trillion dollars. Stop buying the rhetoric and get the facts. More people are dropping out of the labor force than at any time in U.S. history and we count employment and unemployed differently these days thanks to Clinton in 1994. Discouraged workers are dropped from both employment and unemployment roles thus are no loner counted. The real unemployment rate is 16.2% according to bls.gov.
    Again, the question you need to ask yourself isn't "Is Obama doing as well as I would like", but rather "Is Obama doing better than Republicans do"? Certainly we'd all like to have seen him be sworn in to office, snap his fingers, and all of a sudden everybody was working again... But the decision we have to make in the next election isn't between Obama and magic, it is between Obama and more of the Republican agenda that just collapsed the economy very recently. So even if everything you said was true and we were still losing jobs (that is not true) but we were losing them much more slowly than under Republicans, then that would still mean you should vote for Obama.

    But, what you're saying is not true. The graph is net jobs. The total number of jobs in the US. It was falling rapidly under Bush, as soon as Obama took over it started falling more and more slowly- he was stopping the bleeding- and then it started to rise. That means more people working, so the labor participation stuff isn't relevant. This isn't the unemployment rate, it is the number of jobs in the country. Secondly, it is not true that the number of jobs in the country is still negative at all. I think there have been a couple months where it was here and there, but overall it is most definitely going up. What you see is right wingers posting threads here and right wing pundits ranting on when there is a month or even a week where the number goes down, but then they're silent the substantial majority of months when it goes up... That you think it is consistently going down is just a product of the sources you choose to pay attention to being ludicrous. It went down in August. That's why you think it is "still" going down, but that was a major exception. It had gone up many months in a row before that.

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    republicans grow the government as well, but you continue to vote for them...what inspires such blind loyalty from you? why don't you hold them accountable? why not apply the same standard to republicans that you do democrats? why the double standard?
    Yes, because the alternative was worse just like it will be to re-elect Obama. We have had almost 3 years of Obamanomics and the results are there for all to see. Keep spouting the partisan bs. I do apply the same standards, why would anyone vote for Gore and Kerry over Bush? Why would anyone vote for Obama for a second term with the results we have today. He had his chance and failed. Bush performance didn't decline until 2008 when Democrats took control of Congress. That is reality even in your union world.

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Again, the question you need to ask yourself isn't "Is Obama doing as well as I would like", but rather "Is Obama doing better than Republicans do"? Certainly we'd all like to have seen him be sworn in to office, snap his fingers, and all of a sudden everybody was working again... But the decision we have to make in the next election isn't between Obama and magic, it is between Obama and more of the Republican agenda that just collapsed the economy very recently. So even if everything you said was true and we were still losing jobs (that is not true) but we were losing them much more slowly than under Republicans, then that would still mean you should vote for Obama.

    But, what you're saying is not true. The graph is net jobs. The total number of jobs in the US. It was falling rapidly under Bush, as soon as Obama took over it started falling more and more slowly- he was stopping the bleeding- and then it started to rise. That means more people working, so the labor participation stuff isn't relevant. This isn't the unemployment rate, it is the number of jobs in the country. Secondly, it is not true that the number of jobs in the country is still negative at all. I think there have been a couple months where it was here and there, but overall it is most definitely going up. What you see is right wingers posting threads here and right wing pundits ranting on when there is a month or even a week where the number goes down, but then they're silent the substantial majority of months when it goes up... That you think it is consistently going down is just a product of the sources you choose to pay attention to being ludicrous. It went down in August. That's why you think it is "still" going down, but that was a major exception. It had gone up many months in a row before that.
    Please name for me ANY President in Modern history that has added 4 trillion to the debt in 3 years, had a net job loss over 2 years after the end of a recession, had a decline in the labor force 2 1/2 years after taking office. Add that to the rising miery index and socialist economic programs and it boils down to Obama, you had your chance, you are fired!

    BLS shows a net job loss for Obama and as I pointed out the Obama job approval rating reflects the American view of his performance, one that you want to ignore. I suggest you stop spouting liberal lines and get the facts.


    Create your own chart and stop making a fool of yourself

    Top Picks (Most Requested Statistics) : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Yet during the Bush years when the Republicans controlled the WH and Congress the deficit was less than when the Democrats controlled the Congress [...]
    While your statement, in a vacuum (sans context), would be correct it ignores the fact that the economy imploded while the Democrats controlled Congress (and in no part due to their control). This economic implosion was a major factor in the increased deficit.

    If the roles had been reversed -- Democrats controlling Congress during the first 6 years of the Bush administration, with the Republicans wresting control in the last 2 years, the deficit figures would be little changed (assuming the Dems had gone along with the Bush tax cuts, no foregone conclusion)... the economy still would have imploded at about the same time, but on the Republican congressional watch instead of the Democrats. Therefore your argument is purely circumstantial, and therefore invalid.

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative, replying to Karl while dodging his question View Post
    The size of Govt. is 3.7 trillion dollars and the debt is almost equal to GDP. Why do we need a 3.7 trillion dollar govt/
    What size do you propose?

    I will note that $3.7 trillion is somewhat high; with a $15 trillion GDP the historical norm (20%) would be $3.0 trillion govt. Would you settle for that?

    Or will you again bandy about out-of-context numbers in an attempt to make a point via sheer unrelated size alone?

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    While your statement, in a vacuum (sans context), would be correct it ignores the fact that the economy imploded while the Democrats controlled Congress (and in no part due to their control). This economic implosion was a major factor in the increased deficit.

    If the roles had been reversed -- Democrats controlling Congress during the first 6 years of the Bush administration, with the Republicans wresting control in the last 2 years, the deficit figures would be little changed (assuming the Dems had gone along with the Bush tax cuts, no foregone conclusion)... the economy still would have imploded at about the same time, but on the Republican congressional watch instead of the Democrats. Therefore your argument is purely circumstantial, and therefore invalid.
    Thus your opinion which you are entitled to no matter how wrong you are. Socialism and Communism don't work and never will work in a country founded on free market capitalism unless you create so much dependence on govt. programs that you cause this country to fail economically which Obama is trying to do.

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    [...] This is class warfare and a step towards socialism and the question is do you really believe it thus are part of the problem or are you just brainwashed into believing the liberal rhetoric?
    The class warfare belongs squarely in the GOP toolbox as they rant and rave about entitlements, promulgating a class hatred towards those who they paint as not paying their own way / 'fair share'. Reagan himself started this war with his "welfare queen" meme.

    As far as socialism goes, the USA has been leaning decidedly in the social progressive camp for some 70 years; otherwise we would not have programs like Social Security, Medicare, Unemployment Insurance, and a progressive income tax. I ROF and LMAO everytime I see some hysterical right wing pol claim this is a "center right" country
    Last edited by Karl; 09-19-11 at 02:56 PM.

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Yes, because the alternative was worse just like it will be to re-elect Obama. We have had almost 3 years of Obamanomics and the results are there for all to see. Keep spouting the partisan bs. I do apply the same standards, why would anyone vote for Gore and Kerry over Bush? Why would anyone vote for Obama for a second term with the results we have today. He had his chance and failed. Bush performance didn't decline until 2008 when Democrats took control of Congress. That is reality even in your union world.
    no sir, you do not apply the same standards, as has been shown repeatedly, and as you prove here, as long as there is an (R) next to the name, you will vote for them, even, if by your own standards, the results, as you see them, are the same as someone with a (D) next to their name. again, why the double standard? and again, please dispense with the attempted baiting/trolling, just answer the question.

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    Re: Boehner Asks Debt Panel to Take on Tax Breaks, Reject Hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    The class warfare belongs squarely in the GOP toolbox as they rant and rave about entitlements, promulgating a class hatred towards those who they paint as not paying their own way / 'fair share'. Reagan himself started this war with his "welfare queen" meme.

    As far as socialism goes, the USA has been leaning decidedly in the social progressive camp for some 70 years; otherwise we would not have programs like Social Security, Medicare, Unemployment Insurance, and a progressive income tax. I ROF and LMAO everytime I see some hysterical right wing pol claim this is a "center right" country
    Coming from a guy named Karl, with a picture of Marx... the irony is heavy and pungent.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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