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Thread: Eurozone crisis could rip EU apart: officials

  1. #21
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    Re: Eurozone crisis could rip EU apart: officials

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    If they are going to default, they have to be kicked out of the Euro. If not, then they have to be bailed out again. This is favourable for Greece and Portugal and Ireland will probably follow suit creating a massive spike in their yields. This would in turn crush the European economy and create another major recession. I don't want that to happen, because it would damage the job market in the whole world.

    There are two solutions to the problems.
    1. Eurobonds, fiscal union or some other way of giving a free handout to Greece. Greece won't reform and it is an extremely unpopular decision. It could only pass undemocratically.

    2. Let Greece default, kick them out of Euro or just don't give them a bailout. Since they are kicked out of the Eurozone, their economy will collapse and won't be envyed by any countries in Europe. This will prevent Portugal and Ireland to follow suit. Then promise to bail out any other countries in Europe, by putting up a collective crisis fund. This would increase the confidence in the Euro. If they change currency, then their debt can be converted into greek dollars.
    As usual the strongest economy (Germany) will have to eat up a lot of this problem to save the others. I think the Germans will eventually get tired of this. Economic problems caused by too much debt can't be cannot be solved without following sound laws of economics. All this maneuvering that appears to be going on, including what the Chinese are doing, will not solve things.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Eurozone crisis could rip EU apart: officials

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I trust you'll stay out of the economic forum from now on since you have to ask me a question like that. If you promise and swear to it right here, I'll try to answer your question. If you promise and ever go back in there, you have to leave this site forever.

    Are we in a kindergarten playground? Promise you will not go on the swing again and I'll tell you how the fairy got to your tooth. Picky promise or you give me all your cookies.

    Either you know what you meant or you don't. Trying to blackmail someone else just seem desperate and childish.
    Last edited by nonpareil; 09-15-11 at 08:58 AM.
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    Re: Eurozone crisis could rip EU apart: officials

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    Are we in a kindergarten playground? Promise you will not go on the swing again and I'll tell you how the fairy got to your tooth. Picky promise or you give me all your cookies.

    Either you know what you meant or you don't. Trying to blackmail someone else just seem desperate and childish.
    You don't know Pete. He gets what I said, he's just playing difficult. You can't cheat the laws of economics just like you can't cheat the laws of physics. He just wants to play all defensive over Europe, because he hates America and has been criticizing to us for years. Now that Europe is ****ing up, he looks hypocritical.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Eurozone crisis could rip EU apart: officials

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    As usual the strongest economy (Germany) will have to eat up a lot of this problem to save the others. I think the Germans will eventually get tired of this. Economic problems caused by too much debt can't be cannot be solved without following sound laws of economics. All this maneuvering that appears to be going on, including what the Chinese are doing, will not solve things.
    True, but in theory their original plan would have worked.

    However, they greatly underestimated the crisis because Europeans like PeteEU are never able to admit that Europe may have problems. They also failed to take into account the different cultures. Europeans have the thinking that we are all the same people, but some people are lucky and are born in rich countries while others are born poor. This is not true, culture is a very big influence on our behavior. In effect, by not taking into account Greek opposition to any reform, they didn't implement the necessary changes.

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    Re: Eurozone crisis could rip EU apart: officials

    The outsourcing of industry to China in exchange for artificially cheap goods and deficit funding was a poor trade for the US and Europe.

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    Re: Eurozone crisis could rip EU apart: officials

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I trust you'll stay out of the economic forum from now on since you have to ask me a question like that. If you promise and swear to it right here, I'll try to answer your question. If you promise and ever go back in there, you have to leave this site forever.
    More avoidance.. why is it you cant explain yourself?
    PeteEU

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    Re: Eurozone crisis could rip EU apart: officials

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You don't know Pete. He gets what I said, he's just playing difficult.
    No, I do NOT understand what the hell you are talking about. Hence I asked you to explain it.

    You can't cheat the laws of economics just like you can't cheat the laws of physics.
    Again, WHAT law of economics are they trying to cheat..

    He just wants to play all defensive over Europe, because he hates America and has been criticizing to us for years. Now that Europe is ****ing up, he looks hypocritical.
    The only one looking like a fool here is you, by not backing up your claim of "cheating the law of economics" with an explanation on what the hell you mean.

    Also I am in no way defensive over Europe, but I do believe in a balanced and fair shake for all and that is seriously lacking especially from people like you

    Nor do I hate America. I hate hypocritical right wingers in US politics, but that is not the USA. I also hate communists, does that mean I hate all Chinese and Cubans?

    So again ... answer the question I have asked you time and time again and is a basis for this whole thread.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Eurozone crisis could rip EU apart: officials

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    The outsourcing of industry to China in exchange for artificially cheap goods and deficit funding was a poor trade for the US and Europe.
    This.

    However, the overall problem with both the US and the EU is that they have gone crazy on credit. While some debt is good, the amount that PIGS as well as the US has is extremely unsustainable. In response to their massive debt crisis that was caused by the financial elite in the Europe, which originally started out in Greece (The Great Global Debt Depression: It’s All Greek To Me Andrew Gavin Marshall) has led to speculation that the Eurozone will fall (Why the Eurozone Must Fail - YouTube). In the US the constant wars have led to a massive increase in the debt (US response to 9/11 contributed to causes of current debt crisis - CSMonitor.com) and thus many have been pushing for austerity in both Europe (Europe's new austerity measures — EUbusiness - legal, business and economic news from Europe and the EU) and the US (Pelosi: "It Is Clear We Must Enter an Era of Austerity"). However, this won't solve the problems of the debt crisis. as austerity measures can be quite troublesome (IMF Report: Austerity Measures Hurt Income, Make Long-Term Unemployment Worse) and could potentially lead to "disaster." (UN study says austerity measures in US, Europe may lead to 'disaster' - The China Post), and are also, not to mention, ironic (The Cruel Irony of Austerity: "Destroying People's Lives").
    Last edited by Mr. Invisible; 09-15-11 at 10:22 AM.
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    Re: Eurozone crisis could rip EU apart: officials

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    True, but in theory their original plan would have worked.

    However, they greatly underestimated the crisis because Europeans like PeteEU are never able to admit that Europe may have problems.
    May? Of course Europe has problems.. they have always been around and I have never denied that. In fact I have pointed many out in many discussions on the subject. The difference is blowing those problems out of proportions or taking a realistic view of things. Right now many things are blown way out of proportions... take the mantra been spewed around by many media outlets.. "Spanish debt problems"... it is idiotic.. Spain has the lowest debt vs GDP levels of all major economies! And if 60% debt vs GDP is a "debt problem" now days, the god help us all since most nations have over 60% debt .... If anyone has debt problems it is the Irish with their 130+% debt vs GDP and massive private debt also. Now that is a debt problem.

    They also failed to take into account the different cultures.
    Hardly... you dont know the EU then. It is nothing but taking other cultures into consideration. We move the freaking parliament twice a year because of different cultures.. The legislation implemented in the EU has bits and pieces from all different cultures... hell our human rights rules come from British cultural bias.. which is ironic considering it is the Brits that now hate that human rights rules so much and want to get rid of them...

    Europeans have the thinking that we are all the same people, but some people are lucky and are born in rich countries while others are born poor. This is not true, culture is a very big influence on our behavior. In effect, by not taking into account Greek opposition to any reform, they didn't implement the necessary changes.
    Again incorrect. It is people like you and other EU sceptics that live in the past and refuse to adapt to changing times. Yes we are many different cultures and different peoples but we also have a lot in common and those commonalities become more and more, and I suspect it scares people like you and other EU sceptics. The differences in culture are a strength not a negative thing.

    I have asked a lot of EU sceptics over time... what is it you hate about the EU... and as of yet, no one has come with a comprehensive explanation that holds up to the facts. Maybe you can give it a try.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Eurozone crisis could rip EU apart: officials

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Su...ean_Bodies.png

    This diagram explains the different European organisations and treaties and which countries are in which.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by PeteEU; 09-15-11 at 10:39 AM.
    PeteEU

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