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Thread: U.S. Poverty Climbed to 17-Year High in 2010

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You got it. It's the Tragedy of the Commons problem. If everyone cooperated, everyone would be better off. But by and large each individual won't cooperate unless there's some assurance that others will do the same. That's what government is for: to provide that mechanism and assurance.
    In our case, we are lied to about the assurance while the big guys (banks and corporations) get the favors.

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    Re: U.S. Poverty Climbed to 17-Year High in 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I would go a step further and add that the investment must include programs geared at solving the problems which lead to poverty, namely lack of education and job skills.
    The President's Job's plan includes this very approach:

    "A popular idea in President Obama's new jobs bill could represent a step toward fundamentally transforming the existing system of federal jobless benefits. Some critics say such a move is long overdue--but others worry that a major overhaul could threaten a program that since the Depression has been a core component of the social safety net.
    Obama's jobs measure, sent to Congress Monday, contains a provision that would encourage states to replicate a voluntary Georgia program that allows jobless workers to continue collecting unemployment benefits while training with potential employers."

    "The initiative was one of the few from the president's plan that drew an enthusiastic response from Republicans. After Obama talked up the idea in his speech to Congress last week, Rep. Eric Cantor of Virginia, the number two Republican in the House, noted in response that it had originally come from the GOP, and called it "something that we should be able to get to work on right away."
    Could Obama
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: U.S. Poverty Climbed to 17-Year High in 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    For one thing, your value judgment about the importance of my bank account relative to your well-being (whatever that means to you) is nothing more than your value judgment. The two do not have anything to do with one another, and your attitude does not give you access to my money.
    So if private enterprise had no restraints or regulations it would have zero influence on the public? Remember when it was cheaper for factories to dump waste into rivers rather than to dispose of it correctly? They had to start regulating waste management when rivers were catching on fire and drinking water was being contaminated.

    I don't want your money. I want clean drinking water regardless of how much it costs your factory to dispose of pollutants correctly. See the difference?

    For another thing, why can't the public look out for its own interest by way of their conscious, rational decisions?
    That's what these regulations are doing. Public opinion started frowning upon lead paint and poisonous cars.

    Why does someone else have to make their decisions and do the advocating the way parents do for a child? Private enterprise and public interest go hand-in-hand, yet you paint them as competing forces.
    Energy companies are trying to step up natural gas fracturing as we speak. If you're not familiar with the process, it uses millions of gallons of fresh water per well. This draws up local water supplies away from communities and leaves behind contaminates like arsenic, copper and other carcinogens.

    I don't know about you, but I like to keep faucet explosions to a minimum when I'm using my sink or shower.

    I guess that's because leftism assumes people cannot make their own best choices. Am I right?
    No.
    "It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this." Bertrand Russell

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    Re: U.S. Poverty Climbed to 17-Year High in 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post


    I can't speak for him, but I don't think anyone is proposing that anyone should be prevented from accumulating wealth. OTOH, I think that it's in everone's interest to prevent gross imbalance in wealth accumulation such as we're seeing now, where 400 people control more wealth than the bottom 50% of the people in the the country.
    This is true, but not quite what I'm getting at.

    As I made it clear above, one shouldn't be alowed to pursue wealth if it involves putting entire communities at risk. One's freedom will often negate someone else's freedom.
    "It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this." Bertrand Russell

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    Re: U.S. Poverty Climbed to 17-Year High in 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Jacking up taxes on the rich has only made dem politicians wealthier and jacked up the deficit
    Reagan cut taxes and grew the largest deficit in history. Clinton Raised taxes and oversaw the largest deficit reduction since WWII. G.W. cut taxes and oversaw the new largest deficit growth in history. Now we're leaving the tax cuts in place under Obama and the deficit will continue to grow.

    We better lay off some teachers and firemen to compensate.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie Reagan View Post
    I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of itself.
    Last edited by Bardo; 09-14-11 at 03:53 AM.
    "It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this." Bertrand Russell

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    Re: U.S. Poverty Climbed to 17-Year High in 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardo View Post
    Reagan cut taxes and grew the largest deficit in history. Clinton Raised taxes and oversaw the largest deficit reduction since WWII. G.W. cut taxes and oversaw the new largest deficit growth in history. Now we're leaving the tax cuts in place under Obama and the deficit will continue to grow.

    We better lay off some teachers and firemen to compensate.
    Your credibility may actually rise a tiny bit, once you decide who actually grew the BIGGEST DEFICIT IN HISTORY.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: U.S. Poverty Climbed to 17-Year High in 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by nijato View Post
    I don't understand. Are you saying that high levels of income inequality and poverty are not associated with political instability? You could say that... you'd just be wrong.
    My point stands - your yardstick isn't meaningful.

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    Re: U.S. Poverty Climbed to 17-Year High in 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The President's Job's plan includes this very approach:

    "A popular idea in President Obama's new jobs bill could represent a step toward fundamentally transforming the existing system of federal jobless benefits. Some critics say such a move is long overdue--but others worry that a major overhaul could threaten a program that since the Depression has been a core component of the social safety net.
    Obama's jobs measure, sent to Congress Monday, contains a provision that would encourage states to replicate a voluntary Georgia program that allows jobless workers to continue collecting unemployment benefits while training with potential employers."

    "The initiative was one of the few from the president's plan that drew an enthusiastic response from Republicans. After Obama talked up the idea in his speech to Congress last week, Rep. Eric Cantor of Virginia, the number two Republican in the House, noted in response that it had originally come from the GOP, and called it "something that we should be able to get to work on right away."
    Could Obama
    That isn't my plan. My plan isn't for those on unemployment who had jobs. My plan is for people persistently and consistently living in poverty due to a lack of education and job skills training. And my plan wouldn't be voluntary.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: U.S. Poverty Climbed to 17-Year High in 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Or we could focus on the real issue here. All of the entitlements, stimulus programs, and attempts to "save or create" jobs, all the unemployment extensions, food stamps, and other assistance programs have not halted the increase in poverty one would expect from a recession/depression.
    And what about the bail outs, subsidies, and tax loopholes given to the other side of the economic spectrum? i see no mention of those. You seem outraged that people receive extentions for unemployment, and yet the unemployment rate is still unreasonably high. So let's say food stamps, unemployment, and other entitlements are cut for low income people- what then? Do they support their families working part time at Dollar General? Surely you have some suggestions on how employment can be increased... I mean other than the same accusations of laziness and lack of accountability of the lower income population.

    Many corporations are raking in record profits, and yet unemployment remains high, and many of these companies refuse to pay their fair share in taxes:


    Large U.S. corporations are pressuring Congress and the White House to exempt overseas corporate profits from taxes, a policy shift that critics say would hurt the economy and increase the federal deficit.
    A fight is shaping up between supporters of territorial taxation, as this policy proposal is known, and opponents who favor a different reform -- repealing a tax law that allows corporations to defer paying taxes on their overseas income.


    The two sides are facing off over an old and worsening problem -- how to fix the system for taxing companies' foreign income. Both sides agree the system is not working and a new approach is needed, but their solutions are direct opposites.
    "A tax system that raises little revenue, but imposes high compliance and administrative burdens on taxpayers and the IRS is the very definition of a bad tax system. Unfortunately, that is the system we have," said Philip West, a former U.S. Treasury Department tax official, at a Senate hearing.
    Case in point: business software and hardware giant Oracle Corp. Based in California, Oracle generates 60 percent of its nearly $36 billion in annual sales overseas.


    I see conservatives addressing entitlements for the poor, but they conveniently forget the rest. ah well. In the end, none of this will matter once hyper inflation kicks in:

    The U.S. Senate, in an unusual procedure, cleared the way Thursday for the U.S. to lift its borrowing authority by $500 billion to $15.19 trillion, enough to keep the support federal government borrowing through late January or early February.

    Great. Trillions of dollars and it will only last until when... January? Even if there were increases in wages and employment, it appears that the US treasury will continue to print more fiat currency, and as this QE continues, the value of the dollar will continue to decline. Apparently, Americans don't mind that the government is essentially following the same fiscal policies as Zimbabwe. And as the dollar buys less, poverty will increase. Right- poverty is increasing because people are lazy.

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    So why don't we take a look at new ideas, methods, and means of addressing poverty, which should and, quite frankly, must include some sort of self-accountability measures,
    For whom?

    Ah yes, the poor. The lazy parasites who dare to collect unemployment when there are no jobs.

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    COL variation considerations, adjustments on what "impoverished living" really is, and expectations on those in poverty to be active in their own ascent out of such a lifestyle? Why don't we address the fact that our grand solution to poverty has merely been subsistence, when we should have been focused on providing means for those in poverty to find pathways to prosperity?
    Yes, because those pesky poor people are the real problem here.

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Nah, you're right. Let's go on a class warfare rant about the rich and their taxes, which has NOTHING AT ALL to do with the fact that poverty is rising.
    Right. The corporations who continue to send jobs overseas, and refuse to pay taxes couldn't possibly be apart of the problem. It must be those lazy, good for nothing, low income people. Maybe if they'd just quit breeding-

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Those in poverty share a lot of common traits. Chiefly among them? More children, less education, distinct lack of job skills, and a lower marriage rate than families above the poverty line.
    uh huh- So what do you recommend? Let their children starve, put them in foster care, mandatory sterilization-what? You complain that the low income people are responsible for a sizable percent of this nation's problems, but I think you listen to too much talk radio.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

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    Re: U.S. Poverty Climbed to 17-Year High in 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I thought trickle down economics was supposed to increase jobs and revenue? We clearly see they did not and the GOP is only proposing more of the same.
    Trickle down hasn't worked efficiently on the national scale due to the amount of goods manufactured overseas instead of in the states. My preference is that we give trickle up a chance to balance it out.

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