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Thread: U.S. Poverty Climbed to 17-Year High in 2010

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    Re: U.S. Poverty Climbed to 17-Year High in 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    I can not prove a Yeti either, for much the same reason.
    put up or shut up, please.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: U.S. Poverty Climbed to 17-Year High in 2010

    Sustained robust economic growth reduces poverty. Rapidly growing East Asian economies, not to mention Brazil and India, offer good illustrations. On the flip side, stagnant or sluggishly growing economies typically result in an increase in the incidence of poverty on account of high unemployment (which cuts off people from incomes), little or no real income growth, and, in a potential long-term aspect, foregone competitiveness (such economies lead to efforts at "quick fixes" that ignore structural realities and result in foregone investment).

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    Re: U.S. Poverty Climbed to 17-Year High in 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    We can throw out any study that uses words like "highly welfare dependent" .

    All that means is they had a desired result and took out enough people until they got there.
    You should be able to look at the study and show that is what happened. Not easily done, I agree. But possible. Can you link anyone who has done that?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: U.S. Poverty Climbed to 17-Year High in 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Not only did you take a flying leap off the cliff to make a lot of assumptions, but you put a lot of words into my mouth that I did not say.
    Bovine scatology. All I did was interpret your obvious generalizations.

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I'll make this painfully clear for you, and perhaps you'll actually take the time to understand what I'm saying instead of standing on your little soap box, attacking an idea I didn't express:

    1. I want to provide programs to help the poor overcome the obstacles that keep them poor, namely lack of education and job skills.
    In your previous posts, I saw no reference to any plans, only your opinions. In regards to this, as someone has already pointed out, these programs already exist. Furthermore, what good does more education do when there are no jobs? Any plan for providing employment? Because there are many highly educated people out of work these days. Just because someone is low income doesn't prove that they are uneducated.

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    2. I never said we should remove their benefits or let children starve in the process of helping the poor acquire the above skills.
    You certainly have issues with providing people with food stamps since they apparently need more "self accountability." What does that imply? That they don't have accountability. That is a false premise.

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    3. I never said that the poor are lazy or "parasites" or even blamed them for the lack of education or job skills.
    4. My point in attacking the entitlements designed to "prevent" poverty was to point out that they don't, in fact, prevent poverty. These programs sustain people who are still living in poverty despite the money/programs.
    If you want to reducet poverty, providing employment would be a excellent start. Otherwise, these dreaded entitlements are all people have to feed their children that they apparently shouldn't have had anyhow.

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    See, I want better for the poor, and I think the programs we have no don't offer "better". I think they offer a security blanket while leaving them standing out in the cold. It doesn't solve the problem, it just makes it more tolerable.
    Fine, so how should they pull themselves out of poverty? Education is a nice sounding idea, and yet with no employment prospects, it's pointless. Skills training? Great. No jobs, no money. More entitlements.

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    But by all means, turn my statement into a rich vs. poor argument.
    That's the common reaction-blame class warfare, and yet no where have I argued that wealth is bad. I have only argued that corporations avoid paying taxes, avoid providing domestic employment, and all the while receive government subsidies. Then the neo cons complain about food stamps.

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Jump to conclusions. Attack me for wanting a better program and a better opportunity for people. Go ahead.
    Hyperbole.

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    It just proves you don't care what I have to say, you just want to get up there and rant away about something not only unrelated to my argument, but completely outside of any logical interpretation of what I was saying.
    Look, no one gives a crap about what I have to say, either. Otherwise, you would have addressed my points instead of raving about class warfare, and monologuing about plans to educate the poor. And yet a plan to provide them with jobs after they become skilled and educated has still not been addressed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Who do you think has swelled the poverty numbers? Under the welfare reform of 1996, those not disabled can only remain on welfare for two years.

    So let's hear your plan?
    Plan? What plan?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Those reforms sucked...because they still did not address the cause of poverty. The idea that we should just shrug and say, "oh, we tried once...let's forget about it" is ridiculous.
    What is the cause?

    i mean to hear some people tell it, providing the poor with food and shelter is the cause. It's almost as daft as the entire premise of a jobless recovery. There can be no recovery much less growth without employment. Can we at least agree on that?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I'm not sure why you even mentioned time limits. What good is a time limit if we are not simultaneously requiring mandatory participation in work training or education programs? If we are not utilizing means of helping these people become more marketable, more skilled?
    And again, where will they work?

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    so what's your plan to address the causes of poverty?
    no plan.


    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I've already posted it. In this thread and in several others. I'm not going over it again to prove anything to you, especially after you have repeatedly made it obvious that you will continually refuse to accept what I say at face value, and will instead insert ridiculous strawman and distortions into the argument to try and make me look like every other stereotypical conservative you think exists. Find it yourself.
    No you haven't.

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    again, what specifically is your plan?
    So far, I've gathered that there needs to be more time limits on foodstamps and unemployment, more "job skills" and more requirements for "education."

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Sustained robust economic growth reduces poverty. Rapidly growing East Asian economies, not to mention Brazil and India, offer good illustrations. On the flip side, stagnant or sluggishly growing economies typically result in an increase in the incidence of poverty on account of high unemployment (which cuts off people from incomes), little or no real income growth, and, in a potential long-term aspect, foregone competitiveness (such economies lead to efforts at "quick fixes" that ignore structural realities and result in foregone investment).
    Indeed.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

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    Re: U.S. Poverty Climbed to 17-Year High in 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    Bovine scatology. All I did was interpret your obvious generalizations.



    In your previous posts, I saw no reference to any plans, only your opinions. In regards to this, as someone has already pointed out, these programs already exist. Furthermore, what good does more education do when there are no jobs? Any plan for providing employment? Because there are many highly educated people out of work these days. Just because someone is low income doesn't prove that they are uneducated.



    You certainly have issues with providing people with food stamps since they apparently need more "self accountability." What does that imply? That they don't have accountability. That is a false premise.



    If you want to reducet poverty, providing employment would be a excellent start. Otherwise, these dreaded entitlements are all people have to feed their children that they apparently shouldn't have had anyhow.



    Fine, so how should they pull themselves out of poverty? Education is a nice sounding idea, and yet with no employment prospects, it's pointless. Skills training? Great. No jobs, no money. More entitlements.



    That's the common reaction-blame class warfare, and yet no where have I argued that wealth is bad. I have only argued that corporations avoid paying taxes, avoid providing domestic employment, and all the while receive government subsidies. Then the neo cons complain about food stamps.



    Hyperbole.



    Look, no one gives a crap about what I have to say, either. Otherwise, you would have addressed my points instead of raving about class warfare, and monologuing about plans to educate the poor. And yet a plan to provide them with jobs after they become skilled and educated has still not been addressed.



    Plan? What plan?



    What is the cause?

    i mean to hear some people tell it, providing the poor with food and shelter is the cause. It's almost as daft as the entire premise of a jobless recovery. There can be no recovery much less growth without employment. Can we at least agree on that?



    And again, where will they work?



    no plan.




    No you haven't.



    So far, I've gathered that there needs to be more time limits on foodstamps and unemployment, more "job skills" and more requirements for "education."



    Indeed.
    This will be the last response from me, because this isn't the first time you've absolutely miscontrued my statements and accused me of saying/believing things I don't believe. Debating with you is pointless, so it won't happen again.

    I didn't discuss time limits in the sense that I think we should have one specifically.
    I didn't say that the entitlements CAUSE poverty. I said they don't FIX poverty.
    I listed several common causes of poverty.
    I indicated my plan in this thread. I've also indicated it in several other threads. Also, on IRC.
    I don't have a jobs plan, and I clearly included the fact that poverty was not declining prior to the recession, indicating that even without high unemployment, we still have poverty, which means not having available jobs is only a small part of the overall problem.
    You most CERTAINLY made this an issue of rich v. poor.
    That wasn't hyperbole, that was metaphor.
    There were no "obvious generalizations". There were facts. You misinterpreted facts and you're flat out wrong. Sorry.
    I never said we should stop giving any aid to people who need it. Ever. Like seriously, never. You won't find it anywhere on this board.


    So there, that's it. Maybe next time instead of making stupid accusations and attacking something that I didn't do you'll actually do the research into what I've said...or, better yet, ask. Then again, I won't be responding to you moving forward, so just go ahead and keep being 100% wrong. That's fine.
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    Re: U.S. Poverty Climbed to 17-Year High in 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    We can throw out any study that uses words like "highly welfare dependent" .

    All that means is they had a desired result and took out enough people until they got there.
    Thanks for you opinion! Got any statistics to refute those in the study?
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    Re: U.S. Poverty Climbed to 17-Year High in 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You should be able to look at the study and show that is what happened. Not easily done, I agree. But possible. Can you link anyone who has done that?
    I don't know. It's not worth the effort IMO.

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    Re: U.S. Poverty Climbed to 17-Year High in 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Those reforms sucked...because they still did not address the cause of poverty. The idea that we should just shrug and say, "oh, we tried once...let's forget about it" is ridiculous.
    What are you talking about? Please be specific, I am not a mind reader.
    Last edited by Catawba; 09-14-11 at 06:04 PM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: U.S. Poverty Climbed to 17-Year High in 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I'm not sure why you even mentioned time limits. What good is a time limit if we are not simultaneously requiring mandatory participation in work training or education programs? If we are not utilizing means of helping these people become more marketable, more skilled?

    The President's job plan does that so I am surprised you do not support it. Even the Republicans like that part of it.
    Last edited by Catawba; 09-14-11 at 06:04 PM.
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    Re: U.S. Poverty Climbed to 17-Year High in 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The President's job plan does that so I am surprised you do not support. Even the Republicans like that part of it.
    My understanding is that the program the president is proposing is for those on unemployment specifically. That doesn't cover every or even most of those in poverty. I also never said I don't support such a program.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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