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Obama Seeks to End Tax Breaks to Pay for Jobs Plan

Goldenboy219 said:
The nation as a whole should not suffer because 2% of the population does not want to pay 5% more in taxes. This should be common sense.

Tax revenue as a % of GDP needs to increase: fact or fiction?
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Its so easy to justify someone else getting tax increases
 
Boo Radley said:
So, we should not ask of corporations what we ask of others as they need special help, they need our money, our tax support, and cannot be seen as capable of carrying their fair load. And we should never be cncerned about anything that might be harmful?

I think you reach the wrong conclusions. From your link:

Whatever the outcome, industry is learning from the delays, the anger, the-zero tolerance for accidents, he says. It’s learning that the public has the right to be assured that infrastructure is safe and responsibly built and that projects will be battlegrounds for broader issues.

“The legitimate issues are public safety, reliability, environmental protection,” Mr. Girling said. “And so we had to up our game to improve on all of those fronts. Certainly the incidents that have occurred over the last year would suggest that there is room for improvement, and as an industry we are working to improve on all those fronts.”
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My sense is that the honest answer is that many support comprehensive corporate tax reform. Get rid of a bunch of deductions and then lower rates to make the US more competitive. The reason everyone says that they want this but it never happens is that what is a giveaway to certain people is essential to another group.

Do we need to allow corporations to deduct the cost of tickets to sporting events so that millionaire ballplayers and billionaire owners can charge hundreds of dollars to a ballgame. Should we give R&D tax credits to companies that then send the manufacturing to China. The reason the tax code is thousands of pages is because of all of the special deals that have been allowed into law over many years.

Clean up the whole thing, raise revenues, enhance growth. Stop with the scapgoating.
 
jambalaya said:
I don't disagree that some tax increases are in order.
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Nor do i disagree that many tax cuts are in order; timing is the essence of everything.
 
washunut said:
My sense is that the honest answer is that many support comprehensive corporate tax reform. Get rid of a bunch of deductions and then lower rates to make the US more competitive. The reason everyone says that they want this but it never happens is that what is a giveaway to certain people is essential to another group.

Do we need to allow corporations to deduct the cost of tickets to sporting events so that millionaire ballplayers and billionaire owners can charge hundreds of dollars to a ballgame. Should we give R&D tax credits to companies that then send the manufacturing to China. The reason the tax code is thousands of pages is because of all of the special deals that have been allowed into law over many years.

Clean up the whole thing, raise revenues, enhance growth. Stop with the scapgoating.
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I'm not entirely in disagreement with you. I don't think taxes play that large a role in growth, and that even if there were no taxes at all, business would still be leaving, largely because we can't compete with low wages and lack of health compensation and benefits. But that's another issue.

However, I think step one would be to clean it up. Remove the breaks and loopholes, and then reassess. I would support that.
 
TurtleDude said:
Its so easy to justify someone else getting tax increases
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Tax increases are a certainty when a nation engages in deficit spending during periods of low unemployment. :prof
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Nor do i disagree that many tax cuts are in order; timing is the essence of everything.
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the two need to dovetail if we are to have a rationale and competitive tax policy.
 
Boo Radley said:
I'm not entirely in disagreement with you. I don't think taxes play that large a role in growth, and that even if there were no taxes at all, business would still be leaving, largely because we can't compete with low wages and lack of health compensation and benefits. But that's another issue.

However, I think step one would be to clean it up. Remove the breaks and loopholes, and then reassess. I would support that.
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No one thing, including taxes is the panacea for all of our ills. We do need to get away from employer based health care. that is why we should all be disappointed that a single payer system was not instituted.

Taxes should not be minimized though. After all corporations care about after tax rather than pre tax profit. Why do you think Ireland ( yes I know they are a mess now also) got so many hi tech manufacturing jobs to move there. They lowered the corporate tax rate to 12% if I am not mistaken.

Like I said I could list a number of actions other than taxes that will spur growth. I am in the camp is that correctly it is one of several negatives, not the sole negative as some want to portray. But on the other hand to think it is of little or no consequence is equally wrong in my view.
 
washunut said:
No one thing, including taxes is the panacea for all of our ills. We do need to get away from employer based health care. that is why we should all be disappointed that a single payer system was not instituted.

Taxes should not be minimized though. After all corporations care about after tax rather than pre tax profit. Why do you think Ireland ( yes I know they are a mess now also) got so many hi tech manufacturing jobs to move there. They lowered the corporate tax rate to 12% if I am not mistaken.

Like I said I could list a number of actions other than taxes that will spur growth. I am in the camp is that correctly it is one of several negatives, not the sole negative as some want to portray. But on the other hand to think it is of little or no consequence is equally wrong in my view.
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I won't argue they won't think about it, so we're likely not that far apart. I just think it is lower on the list.
 
washunut said:
No one thing, including taxes is the panacea for all of our ills. We do need to get away from employer based health care. that is why we should all be disappointed that a single payer system was not instituted.

Taxes should not be minimized though. After all corporations care about after tax rather than pre tax profit. Why do you think Ireland ( yes I know they are a mess now also) got so many hi tech manufacturing jobs to move there. They lowered the corporate tax rate to 12% if I am not mistaken.

Like I said I could list a number of actions other than taxes that will spur growth. I am in the camp is that correctly it is one of several negatives, not the sole negative as some want to portray. But on the other hand to think it is of little or no consequence is equally wrong in my view.
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How low can you go though?
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Tax increases are a certainty when a nation engages in deficit spending during periods of low unemployment. :prof
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shared sacrifice to the dems mean the rich pay more and no one else does
 
winston53660 said:
The poor already carry more of a tax burden via regressive taxes.
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they pay far less of what they use than the rich do. What matters to me is how much money they pay, not their ability to pay which is based on the marxist nonsense of From Each according to their ability

and when it comes to income taxes which is what is at stake in this discussion you are absolutely and completely wrong-again
 
TurtleDude said:
they pay far less of what they use than the rich do. What matters to me is how much money they pay, not their ability to pay which is based on the marxist nonsense of From Each according to their ability

and when it comes to income taxes which is what is at stake in this discussion you are absolutely and completely wrong-again
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Okay Scrooge.
 
TurtleDude said:
shared sacrifice to the dems mean the rich pay more and no one else does
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You can attempt to politicize it as much as you desire. Increasing taxes on citizens with very low savings rates does not raise revenue. Does it appear logical to you that increasing taxes on people with very low savings rates will decrease overall consumption, and therefore both output and tax revenue will decrease as a result from such action?
 
Goldenboy219 said:
You can attempt to politicize it as much as you desire. Increasing taxes on citizens with very low savings rates does not raise revenue. Does it appear logical to you that increasing taxes on people with very low savings rates will decrease overall consumption, and therefore both output and tax revenue will decrease as a result from such action?
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increasing taxes on those who tend to vote for big spending politicians might dissuade them from engaging in such idiocy in the future
 
winston53660 said:
How low can you go though?
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We know that corporations on average do not pay the marginal rate of 35% the effective rate is something like 23%. That is because the tax law is filled with deductions for all sorts of things including trying to pick winners and losers. Also we could establish "enterprise zones". Places like many inner cities where unemployment is very high. We collect no taxes from people who don't work and corporations that send that labor overseas and set up a company over there and pays tax to a foreign government. Why not have a minimal tax or even no tax in those zones and get people employed rather than allow those jobs to go overseas. These will mainly be factory jobs and perhaps low paying. But it gives people the dignity of a job. Allows their children to see that their parents go off to work and instill a work ethic that seems lacking in some parts of our society.

We need that bottom rung of the ladder to be filled with Americans rather than folks from other nations. The next generation has that work ethic instilled, their kids to go school so they can get a better job than their parents. To me that is giving folks the opportunity at the American dream. One generation starts on the ladder and subsequent generations move up the ladder.
 
roughdraft274 said:
According to the polls most people agree with him.

Poll: Raise taxes on wealthy, leave Medicare, Medicaid alone - The Hill's On The Money
Americans Want Higher Taxes On Wealthy, No Entitlement Reform In 'Super Committee' Deal
Poll: Taxing the rich favored over Medicare cuts - Jennifer Epstein - POLITICO.com
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I agree this is a Tax increase and confirms Obama has lying once again and I agree he keeps lowering the amount you can make before he wants to have you switch sides in his personal class war.

I have got news for him he in the class I feel a War with, metaphorically of course.

BTW Obama's poll numbers have remained in the dumper and the only polls that say otherwise I question.

Here is one that fluctuates, but only a point or two week to week:
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Wednesday shows that 22% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as president. Thirty-nine percent (39%) Strongly Disapprove, giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -17.
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Daily Presidential Tracking Poll - Rasmussen Reports™
 
TurtleDude said:
increasing taxes on those who tend to vote for big spending politicians mightdissuade them from engaging in such idiocy in the future
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This is pure conjecture. We do know that it will harm the economy more so than provide revenue necessary to reduce deficits (which only increase future tax liabilities). Starve the beast failed.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
This is pure conjecture. We do know that it will harm the economy more so than provide revenue necessary to reduce deficits (which only increase future tax liabilities). Starve the beast failed.
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take a guess

who is likely to want more government spending

someone who does not suffer higher taxes when the government spends more

or those who do?
 
TurtleDude said:
take a guess

who is likely to want more government spending

someone who does not suffer higher taxes when the government spends more

or those who do?
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Your reply does not address my statement; not to mention you do not have any data to justify your position. No self-respecting credit analyst would agree with the notion that a sovereign debtor "increases" their credit worthiness via the policy you have described.

We want to have a bit of stock debt being as we possess the worlds reserve currency.
 
TurtleDude said:
I find that hard to believe.
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Believe it or not. Knowing the tax system and how to minimize taxes is how I make my living. Warren Buffet's comparison that he seems to do every now and again between him and his secretary is pretty accurate, and I'm far closer to his secretary in tax rate.
 
TurtleDude said:
shared sacrifice to the dems mean the rich pay more and no one else does
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Get more, pay more. Seems fair. The rich are in no way wanting to trade places with the poor. They are not over burdened. Neither am I. In no way do I begruge those who pay less than I do, or feel sorry for those who pay more. I think you protest too much. :coffeepap
 
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