• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Obama Seeks to End Tax Breaks to Pay for Jobs Plan

Conservative said:
Spoken like a true liberal out of touch with reality. Most people see through liberalism that is why 20% now call themselves liberal. Who gives you the authority to speak for "most" People? I don't know what motivates people like you to spend time on a message board vs. going out and trying to make something of yourself. You can legislate equal opportunity but not equal outcome. taking from someone else to give to someone else does nothing to promote exceptionalism and individual wealth creation so you don't need a massive central govt. I would feel a lot better about people like you if you would only admit who you are and that is a socialist.
Click to expand...
Socialism | Define Socialism at Dictionary.com
a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
Click to expand...

I can't put it any plainer than this. You have no idea what you're talking about. Go read a book. Go watch a documentary. Go do anything in the entire world that will make it to where I don't lose IQ points just by simply listening to your incoherent babble.
 
roughdraft274 said:
Socialism | Define Socialism at Dictionary.com


I can't put it any plainer than this. You have no idea what you're talking about. Go read a book. Go watch a documentary. Go do anything in the entire world that will make it to where I don't lose IQ points just by simply listening to your incoherent babble.
Click to expand...

Yeah, yeah, yeah.....pfft....No one knows what Socialism is but libs....Get outta here with that pap.

j-mac
 
Conservative said:
Spoken like a true liberal out of touch with reality. Most people see through liberalism that is why 20% now call themselves liberal. Who gives you the authority to speak for "most" People? I don't know what motivates people like you to spend time on a message board vs. going out and trying to make something of yourself. You can legislate equal opportunity but not equal outcome. taking from someone else to give to someone else does nothing to promote exceptionalism and individual wealth creation so you don't need a massive central govt. I would feel a lot better about people like you if you would only admit who you are and that is a socialist.
Click to expand...

Got a source for that that's actually recent and non-partisan?

Also, lets compare that to how many people call themselves conservatives.
 
roughdraft274 said:
Socialism | Define Socialism at Dictionary.com


I can't put it any plainer than this. You have no idea what you're talking about. Go read a book. Go watch a documentary. Go do anything in the entire world that will make it to where I don't lose IQ points just by simply listening to your incoherent babble.
Click to expand...

What exactly do you think Obama is trying to do? Obamacare is the first step, think private insurance can or will compete? You want badly to believe what you are being told but you ignore what Obama has done through executive orders and regulations. As more and more people turn to the govt. for "help" more and more people are going to demand a bigger role and that plays right into the Obama "community organizer" agenda.

Of course you have no idea what I am talking about as you are part of the problem not part of the solution. i wouldn't be talking about someone else's IQ if I were you
 
j-mac said:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.....pfft....No one knows what Socialism is but libs....Get outta here with that pap.

j-mac
Click to expand...

He isn't saying that. Rather its people who distort what socialism because they don't really have a good grasp of what the concept is. Also, there are many so-called free marketeers in government and RINOs who say they support the free-market, but then give companies an upper hand by not having them pay taxes (Ten giant U.S. companies avoiding income taxes: Sen. Bernie Sanders list - Lynn Sweet) (Top ten list: Tax evaders' wall of shame | Washington Times Communities) (GE: 7,000 tax returns, $0 U.S. tax bill - Apr. 16, 2010) (16 More Profitable Companies That Pay Almost Nothing In Taxes).
 
j-mac said:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.....pfft....No one knows what Socialism is but libs....Get outta here with that pap.

j-mac
Click to expand...
I'd take some time to explain everything to you but I only get three weeks of vacation a year and I'm not using up sick leave just to baby sit you. Have a good one.
 
roughdraft274 said:
And bam. Thanks for showing that you're not capable of intelligent discussion.

If you have the money then I see absolutely no reason that you shouldn't be able to buy any house you want. You should be able to have gold toilets for all I give a ****. However, if you make 500,000 a year and then buy a multi million dollar house and then buy a few fancy sports cars, then pay for two kids to get a top of the line ivy league education and at the end of the day your so stretched by your over spending that 7500 in taxes would cause you serious distress then that's you're fault.

You can call a tiny tax increase "stealing" all you want but understand that most people see right through the talking points bud.
Click to expand...

My talking points are called common effin' sense.

Yours are called big effin' government.
 
Conservative said:
So what you are saying is that the fair share of tax responsibility for the low saving demographics is zero since 47% aren't paying any FIT?
Click to expand...

No. And will no longer answer questions that misrepresent my position.

Raising taxes on the rich does nothing but promote class warfare and does nothing for deficit reduction as evidenced by history.
Click to expand...

Your opinion is noted.

when you give a politician more money they spend it, not use it to cut deficits.
Click to expand...

We have to pay for this jobs bill somehow.

There is no guarantee that more revenue will come into the Treasury just like there is no guarantee that behavior will not change.
Click to expand...

If we increase taxes on the wealthiest Americans, it will increase revenues period. To believe that affluent citizens will downsize their standard of living because they have to pay 5% more on income over $381k is silly, and directly contradicts about 150 years of data. Consumers prefer a stable path of consumption :prof

When you raise taxes on businesses who pays those taxes? How does that help the lower saving demographics?
Click to expand...

Another misrepresentation. I have not advocated raising business taxes nor has the president.

What people do with their money is personal choice for it IS THEIR MONEY!
Click to expand...

Sure, but that does not mean what they do with their money does not negativly impact others.

Saving money means less need for all that so called liberal help so when people save more cut the size of govt.
Click to expand...

Non-sequitor.

You judge the first stimulus by the way it was spent never recognizing that it could have and WAS spent wrong. There is still stimulus money left that hasn't been spent showing that Obama doesn't have a clue nor do his supporters. 842 billion was plenty if spent correctly. Guess they couldn't find the shovels for shovel ready jobs.
Click to expand...

Which shows that you did not read my original analysis of the ARRA. 20% of $1.5 trillion should have been spent on public works in 2009, or 40% of $750 billion, or approximately $300 billion between March 2009 and January 2010, not $150 billion that was primarily representative of tax incentives/cuts/breaks. It will be impossible for you to argue against my position if you do not understand it to begin with.

People paying off debt and saving money means less need for that liberal help as I stated, further where does that payback and savings go and how does that affect investment funds?
Click to expand...

And yet another misrepresentation. Consumers saving their income is good for long term growth. But when nearly all consumers increase savings (as all incomes show signs of a downward vector), it is necessarily a negative for both current and future job growth. An economy that falls by 50% in year 1 would require 100% in economic growth in year 2 just to equal the previous level of output. It is simply irresponsible for a federal government such as ours to believe "we just need to reach the bottom". See the Great Depression.

Needing jobs now doesn't create sustainable growth and you ought to know that.
Click to expand...

When did i say that, "because we need jobs now, it will lead to sustainable growth". Yet another misrepresentation. CREATING jobs now will lead to sustainable income growth.

Not all people are going to save the money or pay down debt no matter how you spin it.
Click to expand...

Of course all of it will not be saved; only the majority of it will. This is the reality of a highly indebted society!

Who said anything about increasing the national debt even though that is what is going to happen. I asked you about rewarding politicians by sending them more tax revenue after THEY created the 14.6 trillion debt. You need help with your reading comprehension.
Click to expand...

Your question was:

We have a 14.6 trillion dollar debt today and you want to reward politicians that generated that debt by giving them more?
Click to expand...

Which is irrelevant to the discussion.

The logic stands now you don't give more money to politicians, you reward the taxpayers. FWIW you didn't answer the question posed.
Click to expand...

Why would i want to answer a question that is really a misrepresentation of my argument. To do so would incentivize your poor debate tactics (the need to use fallacies).
 
Goldenboy219 said:
No. And will no longer answer questions that misrepresent my position.



Your opinion is noted.



We have to pay for this jobs bill somehow.



If we increase taxes on the wealthiest Americans, it will increase revenues period. To believe that affluent citizens will downsize their standard of living because they have to pay 5% more on income over $381k is silly, and directly contradicts about 150 years of data. Consumers prefer a stable path of consumption :prof



Another misrepresentation. I have not advocated raising business taxes nor has the president.



Sure, but that does not mean what they do with their money does not negativly impact others.



Non-sequitor.



Which shows that you did not read my original analysis of the ARRA. 20% of $1.5 trillion should have been spent on public works in 2009, or 40% of $750 billion, or approximately $300 billion between March 2009 and January 2010, not $150 billion that was primarily representative of tax incentives/cuts/breaks. It will be impossible for you to argue against my position if you do not understand it to begin with.



And yet another misrepresentation. Consumers saving their income is good for long term growth. But when nearly all consumers increase savings (as all incomes show signs of a downward vector), it is necessarily a negative for both current and future job growth. An economy that falls by 50% in year 1 would require 100% in economic growth in year 2 just to equal the previous level of output. It is simply irresponsible for a federal government such as ours to believe "we just need to reach the bottom". See the Great Depression.



When did i say that, "because we need jobs now, it will lead to sustainable growth". Yet another misrepresentation. CREATING jobs now will lead to sustainable income growth.



Of course all of it will not be saved; only the majority of it will. This is the reality of a highly indebted society!



Your question was:



Which is irrelevant to the discussion.



Why would i want to answer a question that is really a misrepresentation of my argument. To do so would incentivize your poor debate tactics (the need to use fallacies).
Click to expand...

You are great at distorting and diverting but never responding, that makes you a true believer in the liberal ideology and thus ignore their failures. Good job, your services are no longer necessary, you are fired!
 
Conservative said:
What exactly do you think Obama is trying to do? Obamacare is the first step, think private insurance can or will compete?
Click to expand...
Obamacare, in a nutshell, is the mandate that if you can afford it you have to go out and buy private insurance unless you're already covered by medicare or medicaid. There's nothing for private insurance to compete with. I mean seriously, what planet are you from? Where do you get your information? This isn't hard. The only restrictions placed on private insurance is that it must meet some minimum guidelines as to what it covers, that way you don't get to the hospital only to find out that your insurance you've been paying on for years doesn't cover x-rays.

Take off the tin foil hat and come out of your bunker and join the rest of civilized society.
 
Erod said:
My talking points are called common effin' sense.

Yours are called big effin' government.
Click to expand...

And BOTH are manufactured by Public Relations experts to stop conversation. That's what they are DESIGNED to do.

And what they obviously DO.

Todays free lesson in Cognitive Linguistics!
 
Erod said:
My talking points are called common effin' sense.

Yours are called big effin' government.
Click to expand...
Of course. Common sense is the idea that pulling half of all the government spending out of the economy while it's in a fragile state will have no consequences what so ever.

What is it called when your ideas are only common sense when you are drunk?
 
Conservative said:
You are great at distorting and diverting but never responding, that makes you a true believer in the liberal ideology and thus ignore their failures. Good job, your services are no longer necessary, you are fired!
Click to expand...

I accept your surrender; you've been out of ammunition since the discussion began ;)
 
roughdraft274 said:
Obamacare, in a nutshell, is the mandate that if you can afford it you have to go out and buy private insurance unless you're already covered by medicare or medicaid. There's nothing for private insurance to compete with. I mean seriously, what planet are you from? Where do you get your information? This isn't hard. The only restrictions placed on private insurance is that it must meet some minimum guidelines as to what it covers, that way you don't get to the hospital only to find out that your insurance you've been paying on for years doesn't cover x-rays.

Take off the tin foil hat and come out of your bunker and join the rest of civilized society.
Click to expand...

Civilized Society? Civilized society supports socialized Medicine? Name for me a successful socialist country in the world? What is it about liberalism that creates such loyalty in the face of failures all over the world. I call that arrogance or stupidity.
 
Conservative said:
Civilized Society? Civilized society supports socialized Medicine? Name for me a successful socialist country in the world? What is it about liberalism that creates such loyalty in the face of failures all over the world. I call that arrogance or stupidity.
Click to expand...

The semi-socialist German manufacturing powerhouse is not bogged down by the costs of providing health care to its workers. Before you respond with another misrepresentation, i am not saying we should or could model Germany, i am only answering your question.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
The semi-socialist German manufacturing powerhouse is not bogged down by the costs of providing health care to its workers. Before you respond with another misrepresentation, i am not saying we should or could model Germany, i am only answering your question.
Click to expand...

Yet, like all Socialist supporters you ignore costs and reduction in services.

Socialized Medicine In Germany: Fewer Hospitals, Doctors and Higher Costs | motorcitytimes.com

Deficit Crisis Threatens Ample Benefits of European Life - NYTimes.com

It is time to look at the other side of the equation and that is the benefits that America offers those countries.
 
j-mac said:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.....pfft....No one knows what Socialism is but libs....Get outta here with that pap.

j-mac
Click to expand...

I don't know about that, but many here have shown a lack of understanding as to what socialism really is. That's just a fact.

:coffeepap
 
Conservative said:
Yet, like all Socialist supporters you ignore costs and reduction in services.

Socialized Medicine In Germany: Fewer Hospitals, Doctors and Higher Costs | motorcitytimes.com

Deficit Crisis Threatens Ample Benefits of European Life - NYTimes.com

It is time to look at the other side of the equation and that is the benefits that America offers those countries.
Click to expand...

A blog post from motorcity times and NYTimes from the midst of the Euro-debt crisis in 2010? I mean, when you are going to post a link to make a point, it would be helpful to be a bit more ****ing selective Con! :lamo

None the less, Germany is very well at the moment.
 
apdst said:
It's a perfectly reasonable way for his dumbass to get voted out next year. Because of that, I applaude his efforts.
Click to expand...

I have a feeling the majority of the American people are going to disagree with you on that one. I predict a backlash from how crazy the right has become over the past two years. I highly doubt Obama won't win 2012, and if he loses, it will most certainly be to Mitt Romney. Every other Republican candidate lacks the level of professionalism he has.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
A blog post from motorcity times and NYTimes from the midst of the Euro-debt crisis in 2010? I mean, when you are going to post a link to make a point, it would be helpful to be a bit more ****ing selective Con! :lamo

None the less, Germany is very well at the moment.
Click to expand...

Oh, Good Lord, it isn't going to make any difference to the brainwashed. You aren't going to buy anything that refutes your point of view. We continue to bailout the European countries with our military and still today they are failing. The grass is always greener on the other side for someone like you.
 
roughdraft274 said:
Of course. Common sense is the idea that pulling half of all the government spending out of the economy while it's in a fragile state will have no consequences what so ever.

What is it called when your ideas are only common sense when you are drunk?
Click to expand...

How about we get the other half of the country to pay any federal payroll taxes whatsoever? There's a start for your side of the debate.
 
Conservative said:
Oh, Good Lord, it isn't going to make any difference to the brainwashed. You aren't going to buy anything that refutes your point of view.
Click to expand...

Opinion pieces are of little value as a source.

We continue to bailout the European countries with our military and still today they are failing. The grass is always greener on the other side for someone like you.
Click to expand...

You couldn't help yourself, could ya? I explicitly stated:

Before you respond with another misrepresentation, i am not saying we should or could model Germany, i am only answering your question.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom