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Thread: Obama Seeks to End Tax Breaks to Pay for Jobs Plan

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    Re: Obama Seeks to End Tax Breaks to Pay for Jobs Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    You're essentially asking me "do you think they should continually fight for what they believe in".The obvious answer is yes.
    I think doing this is a disservice to the country. I don't mind a president pushing an idea, even pushing it a number of times. But when every 3 months you attach it to an important issue you're doing a country a disservice by focusing so much of your time, the debate, and your efforts towards something that is reasonable to assume will fail. I'm not saying don't fight for your principles, but I'm saying don't try and make every major issue be tied with that particular pet peeve issue.

    Now I do agree with you they should be allowed to bring it up, no where am I saying they shouldn't be allowed to do it. I just think when you bring something up as part of every major issue that comes up every couple of months when its been unsuccessful both under a majority controlled by your party and by the current make up of congress the ONLY reason you're doing it is for political posturing. That its a waste of time, its a disservice to the public, and its theather and nothing more.

    I'm not saying he can't do it. I just find it distasteful when he or anyone does it.

    I understand your point a bit more now, and I don't disagree at its core. Where we disagree is you seem to support the notion of them doing it and see it as a good thing and I don't. I see it as political grandstanding and putting ones political asperations ahead of actually attempting to get things done.

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    Re: Obama Seeks to End Tax Breaks to Pay for Jobs Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    So your trying to say that all elected officials are there for the will of the people that you agree with ? hate to tell you theres most likely alot more elected officials whose constituents elected them with another ideal other than yours.
    No, I was saying that if you're going to say doing something is okay because its "popular with the people" because polls show it that way you can't ignore that the reason the people in congress are there was becuase they were "popular with the people" as well, and thus why should one example of popularity be greater or more important than the other example.

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    Re: Obama Seeks to End Tax Breaks to Pay for Jobs Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    It's $200k per individual and $250k per household -- nothing new there.

    This is a perfectly reasonable way to pay for the plan.
    And I'll be letting some people go if this is passed. You can bet on that.

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    Re: Obama Seeks to End Tax Breaks to Pay for Jobs Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    In other words, you acknowledge that republicans won't pass it due to how Obama proposes to pay for it, and he is just playing politics by trying to paint the other side as obstructionists. I'm glad we finally agree. Well done.
    No. Republicans may well play politics. You may be right. But they don't have. They can actually try to work with this. Obama is right in what he is calling for. Obama, unlike republicans, is compromising. Republicans are being obstructionist, using my way or the highway. As they ahve been all along. It is proper to call them on it.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama Seeks to End Tax Breaks to Pay for Jobs Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    And I'll be letting some people go if this is passed. You can bet on that.
    If you have the business, you won't. It's that simple. If business is so linked to taxes, then we could never tax them. I just don't buy that. And the research does not show the link you suggest.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama Seeks to End Tax Breaks to Pay for Jobs Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    You know oil and gas, hedge funds, and people with individual income over 200K don't really come to mind when I think "who should get a tax break with the amount of federal debt that exists." Don't get me wrong, I don't like taxes, but the simple fact is that to cut the debt we need BOTH spending cuts AND tax increases, there's no way around it.
    Funny thing is, those are pretty much the only people paying taxes anyway.

    I crack up how people that don't pay taxes think they should get tax breaks.

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    Re: Obama Seeks to End Tax Breaks to Pay for Jobs Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post

    I understand your point a bit more now, and I don't disagree at its core. Where we disagree is you seem to support the notion of them doing it and see it as a good thing and I don't. I see it as political grandstanding and putting ones political asperations ahead of actually attempting to get things done.
    If he were to say that he would not sign any bills unless it included ending the tax cuts, then I could agree that putting it out there is stopping things from getting done, but if he's just suggesting it as a starting point and is willing to negotiate, which he has shown to me that he is willing to since every past negotiation did not include ending these tax cuts, then I see no problem with it. Also, he's not attaching this to bills that have nothing to do with it. When we are discussing issues that involve needing to pay for programs, balancing the budget, helping the economy, this pretty clearly is involved in the discussion in my opinion. I'd agree if we were discussing a bill to legalize weed (something random) and he said that it must include ending tax cuts for the rich well then that has no place in that debate and it doesn't make sense for it to be included.

    Really I think we just disagree on a matter of opinion and I can live with that.
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    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
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    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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    Re: Obama Seeks to End Tax Breaks to Pay for Jobs Plan

    I just don't see it as a legitimate negotiating point when you know its something they're not going to accept. As I said, I see it as political theater. Its like if the Republicans came into every debate that even touched finances in some way and said "We want to eliminate the minimum wage entirely as part of this agreement". They know 100% that it won't be allowed but they're just putting it in there to make a political point and so they can say later "See, we compromised, we wanted the minimum wage gone but gave it up". Or going "We want a 3% tax cut per bracket for all brackets as part of this" knowing that the Democrats won't go with it and then going "See, Democrats are just being obstructionists because they're refusing to accept our modest proposal".

    Its cheap political theater. I'm not a big fan of theater as is, but if its going to be there showing me the same show over and over again makes for unentertaining theater.

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    Re: Obama Seeks to End Tax Breaks to Pay for Jobs Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No. Republicans may well play politics. You may be right. But they don't have. They can actually try to work with this. Obama is right in what he is calling for. Obama, unlike republicans, is compromising. Republicans are being obstructionist, using my way or the highway. As they ahve been all along. It is proper to call them on it.
    In other words, the way he is playing politics is working on you. It's nice that you acknowledge to being so easily manipulated. If Obama were actually serious, he would have tried to pay for the jobs bill by a method that has not already been rejcted by both republicans and democrats.

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    Re: Obama Seeks to End Tax Breaks to Pay for Jobs Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I think doing this is a disservice to the country. I don't mind a president pushing an idea, even pushing it a number of times. But when every 3 months you attach it to an important issue you're doing a country a disservice by focusing so much of your time, the debate, and your efforts towards something that is reasonable to assume will fail. I'm not saying don't fight for your principles, but I'm saying don't try and make every major issue be tied with that particular pet peeve issue.

    Now I do agree with you they should be allowed to bring it up, no where am I saying they shouldn't be allowed to do it. I just think when you bring something up as part of every major issue that comes up every couple of months when its been unsuccessful both under a majority controlled by your party and by the current make up of congress the ONLY reason you're doing it is for political posturing. That its a waste of time, its a disservice to the public, and its theather and nothing more.

    I'm not saying he can't do it. I just find it distasteful when he or anyone does it.

    I understand your point a bit more now, and I don't disagree at its core. Where we disagree is you seem to support the notion of them doing it and see it as a good thing and I don't. I see it as political grandstanding and putting ones political aspirations ahead of actually attempting to get things done.
    This past year, the President has been attacked on a continuous basis by the opposition party. I have never seen such a massive misuse of the term socialist being applied to one person in my entire life. It has become crystal clear that the opposition party does not want to cooperate with the President on any issue. For instance, the debt ceiling fiasco was the epitome of irresponsibility; and instead of passing the debt ceiling in an orderly manner during a time of economic uncertainty, they were willing and ready to only pile on the uncertainty.

    What do you expect the President to do? Should he just sit back and take such displays of disrespect like a "good ole boy"? Nonsense. The GOP has put ideology ahead of the well being of the American people. Therefore, it is this mans job to expose them for what they are....
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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