Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb
Moderator's Warning: I caution you all to remain civil in a thread as potentially as highly charged as this.
"Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run
Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.
"He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
A screaming comes across the sky.
It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow
You know, there is a great amount of middle ground between the "Kill all the Muslims and let Got sort it out" on one side and the "I gotta defend and/or trivialize Islamism because all the really cool kids are doing it" attitude on the other.
Unfortunately, such attitudes go woefully unrepresented in discussions such as this.
"you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos
The puppet masters pull the strings and make the puppets jump. A dozen or so dickheads in London get together and burn a paper American flag. In response a dozen or so dickheads in America become all pissy and outraged. It is stupidity on both sides.
World War Two references are so retarded in this instance its not even funny. You're not fighting a governmental entity.
In World War Two you were trying to defeat a country, to get that country to surrender, that country hard an army, navy, air force, mechanized units... These guys are a bunch of rag tag assholes hiding in caves and mountains and among civilian populations. You can nuke them all you want but here's the rub.
You measure the success of a mission by two things, was it successful and how few civilians did you hurt. They measure success by how many. And if you did nuke anywhere in the midle east you would open up pandoras box. The entire world would rise up against you for being so reckless.
Do the deaths of 3000 people at the hands of extremists deserve the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians? Why are those lives any less meaningful Mr. ****ing Pro Life? Because they're not American?
IT's shameful, pathetic and downright idiotic that you can sit on your moral high horse passing out judgement on those who believe abortion should be legal, but at the same time feel its ok to commit mass murder in the name of revenge just because you value foreigners next to nothing.
Last edited by Jetboogieman; 09-12-11 at 09:50 AM.
War is about more of the enemy dying than you dying. We were not attacked at Pearl Harbor by the civilian population of Japan. We were attacked by it's military. A little more organized than the taliban, but the same idea. No real difference. If you can justify us nuking Japan then using the same logic I can justify us nuking Afghanistan. See how that works? It's called all is fair in love and war.
Let's play a little game. You're a terrorist. You hate America. You and your terrorist brethren decide you want to attack the USA and you plan and accomplish 9/11. You see the USA retaliate with a large scale nuclear attack on your homeland, wiping it off the map and making it unlivable, if you even live through the nukes. Does that send a clear message that you don't want to **** with the USA when you're shooting AK-47's and they're slinging 100KT nuclear warheads?
What message does it send when we reply with a few bombs, lots of riff-raff between political parties here at home and a stronger more organized terror organization as a result? As a terrorist, I want scenario number 2. I sure as **** don't want to **** with scenario number 1.
What say you?
I'm not justifying the use of nuclear weapons against civilian populations. But there's one vital difference between using nuclear weapons against a country that you're trying to get to surrender in a World War, and a non government entity like Al Queada, but that's something you can't seem to grasp.
You could nuke Afghanistan, but what good would that do? The Taliban and Al Queada kill Afghans themselves, so what good would it do except exclusively kill the innocent and not actually destroy Al Queada?
You'd be playing right into their hands with such a brash move. You'd unite the world against you, everyone would turn their backs on you and isolate you for committing mass murder for the actions of a few. What are you going to do hah? Nuke everyone who breaks diplomatic ties with you?