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Thread: Obama Plan Would Boost GDP, Economists Say(edited)

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    Re: Obama Plan Would Boost GDP, Economists Say(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Ok, so, how many permits have been issued since it was, "lifted"?

    If permits aren't being issued, then the ban wasn't, "lifted", was it?
    Do you not have Google where you live? Why don't you ever check your facts before you blurt out whatever crosses your mind?

    "BOEMRE Has Approved 51 New Shallow Water And 19 New Deep Water Drilling Permits Since June. According to the latest data available from the Department of Energy's Bureau of Ocean Energy Management, Regulation, and Enforcement, 51 permits for new shallow-water wells and 19 permits for new deep-water wells have been approved since June 8, 2010."

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    Re: Obama Plan Would Boost GDP, Economists Say(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Do you not have Google where you live? Why don't you ever check your facts before you blurt out whatever crosses your mind?

    "BOEMRE Has Approved 51 New Shallow Water And 19 New Deep Water Drilling Permits Since June. According to the latest data available from the Department of Energy's Bureau of Ocean Energy Management, Regulation, and Enforcement, 51 permits for new shallow-water wells and 19 permits for new deep-water wells have been approved since June 8, 2010."
    Do they have actual links to your source, where you live? Go ahead, post the link for us. This is going to be good!
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    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama Plan Would Boost GDP, Economists Say(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Do they have actual links to your source, where you live? Go ahead, post the link for us. This is going to be good!
    I thought the source was fairly evident from it being named in the quote. :

    Status of Drilling Permits Subject to Enhanced Safety and Environmental Requirements in the Gulf of Mexico

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    Re: Obama's Plan is the Right Way to Go

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I think you forgot to include the link.
    LOL! Isn't it funny that those without a jobs plan whine about others jobs plans. Quite the campaign strategy they've got going there! LOL!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Obama Plan Would Boost GDP, Economists Say(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Ok, so, how many permits have been issued since it was, "lifted"?

    If permits aren't being issued, then the ban wasn't, "lifted", was it?
    Nonsense. This industry has more permits and availability to expand than they know what to do with.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Obama Plan Would Boost GDP, Economists Say(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    It's a good article, but it doesn't exude such gloom and doom as you'd like readers to believe.
    I'm unaware that I suggested it should produce doom and gloom. Simply that it should throw cold water on those from the same crowd that promised us sub-8% unemployment with the Giant Pork Bill American Reinvestment and Recovery Act who now promise us that the presidents new plan (same as the old plan) will somehow do the trick.

    There are mixed reactions to the President's jobs proposal. Some employers say the plan could work for them, others are 50/50 and still others say it won't help them one bit. But what you gleen from the article is this: At least employers are thinking of ways the plan could work for them. At least employers recognize that the plan would work best in certain industries, i.e., construction, pharmaceuticals, health care, education. At least employers are saying the see some merit to the President's jobs proposal. It may not put 8,000,000 people back to work but it it can take even 1/4 of the unemployed or under-employed off the federal dole and increase GDP, I can get behind that.
    it won't get 25% of those workers back, and at half a trillion dollars? we have spent enough on this keynesian experiment already. If the President was talking about permanent reductions instead of tax credits; THEN he would be on to something. If he was talking about tax code simplification, he would be on to something huge. Instead this is a tinker-round-the-edges speech designed mostly just to give him a way to run against Congress in 2012.

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    Re: Obama Plan Would Boost GDP, Economists Say(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Businesses hire because they need help -- not because they're feeling confident. Putting cash in consumers pockets to spend causes businesses to need help.
    that's the theory, certainly. two immediate problems spring to mind.

    1. you have to get that money from somewhere, and the only place to get it is from the private market in the first place. taking money out of someone's pocket to put back in their pocket (taking a cut off the top for the bureaucracy and inefficiency that come with government) doesn't actually mean that they have more money.

    2. in highly leveraged economies (such as - gasp - ours), the multiplier is actually negative, because people tend to use "windfalls" (such as the government giving tax credits) to pay down debt.



    SO. If only we weren't already heavily in debt (both publicly and privately), and if only the government were in possession of a Magic Money Tree which could produce money without increasing the monetary supply, then yes, this plan would work. And beggars could ride.

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    Re: Obama Plan Would Boost GDP, Economists Say(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    that's the theory, certainly. two immediate problems spring to mind.

    1. you have to get that money from somewhere, and the only place to get it is from the private market in the first place. taking money out of someone's pocket to put back in their pocket (taking a cut off the top for the bureaucracy and inefficiency that come with government) doesn't actually mean that they have more money.

    2. in highly leveraged economies (such as - gasp - ours), the multiplier is actually negative, because people tend to use "windfalls" (such as the government giving tax credits) to pay down debt.



    SO. If only we weren't already heavily in debt (both publicly and privately), and if only the government were in possession of a Magic Money Tree which could produce money without increasing the monetary supply, then yes, this plan would work. And beggars could ride.
    Kinda sounds like you are saying wealth is not created and a planned economy is better.

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    Re: Obama's Plan is the Right Way to Go

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    we have been discussing this in another thread and I just want to get my stance on this clear - I would hope that Congress would pass the entire Obama plan as he described it last night. The nation needs it. However, I fear that the GOP will only extract from it the planks that Obama included as part of the compromise with them top get their support and will dump everything else that Obama and the Dems want. They will then claim that they did give the President some of what he requested and thus did indeed compromise. And Obama will be outmaneuvered yet again by the Republicans.
    How about adding that to all your posts?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Obama Plan Would Boost GDP, Economists Say(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    1. you have to get that money from somewhere, and the only place to get it is from the private market in the first place. taking money out of someone's pocket to put back in their pocket (taking a cut off the top for the bureaucracy and inefficiency that come with government) doesn't actually mean that they have more money.
    What exactly are you saying? Are the commercial paper markets seeing a lack in available credit due to increased borrowing by the Federal Government? Have interest rates increased (much less relatively) to reflect a general lack of capital? This money being spent now, rather than later, means income will be created now..., rather than later.

    in highly leveraged economies (such as - gasp - ours), the multiplier is actually negative, because people tend to use "windfalls" (such as the government giving tax credits) to pay down debt.
    The key is to create new income earners. I do however agree that tax cuts, in and of themselves, are a piss poor way to stimulate aggregate demand when society is indebted. Which is why thousands of public works projects are > tax cuts at this time.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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