Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 31 to 39 of 39

Thread: 2 Million Without Power in the Southwest

  1. #31
    Global Moderator
    Moderator
    Helix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:58 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    37,134

    Re: 2 Million Without Power in the Southwest

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    You better have a might hefty set of shears if you're going to cut THAT MUCH red tape. I have no problem with nuclear power. I grew up around several such plants and my father worked security at one for several years. The problem is that you and I are the exceptions, not the rule. The general population has a NIMBY mentality and is not likely to change any time soon.




    As for the grid becoming government run.... We just had a hurricane here in New England that took a week to get everyone back online. If this was a government operation we'd STILL have people without power another week later. We may be inefficient and poorly run now, but a government takeover of the grid would be among the worst things that could happen to this industry.


    I'd say not expanding the grid to meet future demand would be pretty bad, as well. Waiting until it's profitable to do so may not be an option.

  2. #32
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    05-01-14 @ 03:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    12,879

    Re: 2 Million Without Power in the Southwest

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    I'd say not expanding the grid to meet future demand would be pretty bad, as well. Waiting until it's profitable to do so may not be an option.
    These are private companies. When the individual states refuse to allow these companies to raise rates sufficiently to do maintenance in preparation for the future, these companies are not going to do so. I know that's the way it works in the company I work for. We've literally told the regulators that we will ONLY do the work that they allow us to collect payment for through the rates. If they only allow us X amount in the rate case, then we're only going to do X amount of maintenance unless it's emergency.

  3. #33
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    12,460
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: 2 Million Without Power in the Southwest

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Except that in way too many cases we (the electric company) find that people have installed these generators and things without providing the proper notifications to us and do not have the proper interconnections (the cutout you mentioned). Additionally, depending on the size of the generation, there may be items on our side of the interconnection that we require, and which the customer is required to pay for.

    Obviously we're talking a different scale, but when the wind turbine went up in Worcester, MA a couple years ago they paid over $1,000,000 of interconnection fees in order for us to do the upgrades necessary to interconnect with that turbine. I would guess that a small generator who wants to get the benefits of selling power back into the grid is going to be looking at somewhere between $20-50,000 of interconnection costs that THEY will have to eat.
    I am aware of the dangers, I had friends when I was living up north who did high tension work. Helicopters and the whole bit.

    And the whole house systems my friends are looking at run in the 25-30k range for everything. The principle to grid tied isn't to become a net energy provider but to eliminate the hassles and expense of maintaining battery banks, the bane of my off grid friends' existence. (Not really a bane, more luke a constant, low grade pain in the ass.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  4. #34
    Global Moderator
    Moderator
    Helix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:58 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    37,134

    Re: 2 Million Without Power in the Southwest

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    These are private companies. When the individual states refuse to allow these companies to raise rates sufficiently to do maintenance in preparation for the future, these companies are not going to do so. I know that's the way it works in the company I work for. We've literally told the regulators that we will ONLY do the work that they allow us to collect payment for through the rates. If they only allow us X amount in the rate case, then we're only going to do X amount of maintenance unless it's emergency.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    So you're willing to see the current $0.16/KwH average rate in America go to $0.80/KwH (or more)?
    looks like, according to you, it's a rate increase either way. i'd prefer an expanded grid for that money. if it means building the infrastructure publicly, so be it.

    where we agree is probably the cutting of red tape. in a growing nation, there are going to be electrical facilities near some people. make them as safe as possible. and yes, as i previously stated, i would volunteer my own town. what i'm not willing to do is wait until it's too late and a company decides they might finally be able to sell the idea to shareholders.

  5. #35
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    05-01-14 @ 03:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    12,879

    Re: 2 Million Without Power in the Southwest

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    looks like, according to you, it's a rate increase either way. i'd prefer an expanded grid for that money. if it means building the infrastructure publicly, so be it.
    The cost to upgrade the grid is going to be there, no matter what. The thing that people tend to forget is that electricity is a regulated utility, but not owned by the government; which means these companies are caught between the shareholders and the regulators (two completely opposing interests). Public ownership of utilities is a rather expensive and potentially problematic undertaking. Are towns that can't maintain their snow plowing budgets going to be able to operate their own electric companies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    where we agree is probably the cutting of red tape. in a growing nation, there are going to be electrical facilities near some people. make them as safe as possible. and yes, as i previously stated, i would volunteer my own town. what i'm not willing to do is wait until it's too late and a company decides they might finally be able to sell the idea to shareholders.
    One other factor to remember.... Very few places in this country does one company own the electrical system from cradle to grave. The Federal and State regulators generally try to ensure that no one company owns the Generation, Transmission, and Distribution assets in any one area. That makes it even more difficult to do many of these upgrades because it requires multiple companies getting onboard to do it.

  6. #36
    Global Moderator
    Moderator
    Helix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:58 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    37,134

    Re: 2 Million Without Power in the Southwest

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    The cost to upgrade the grid is going to be there, no matter what. The thing that people tend to forget is that electricity is a regulated utility, but not owned by the government; which means these companies are caught between the shareholders and the regulators (two completely opposing interests). Public ownership of utilities is a rather expensive and potentially problematic undertaking. Are towns that can't maintain their snow plowing budgets going to be able to operate their own electric companies?
    it would have to be done federally. my grandfather was an engineer who worked under the REA. had that been left to the "free market," many areas would not have had access to electricity until many decades later, if ever.

    some vital utilities may not be efficiently delivered by for-profit companies. interstate highways and the electrical grid are two excellent examples.

  7. #37
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    05-01-14 @ 03:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    12,879

    Re: 2 Million Without Power in the Southwest

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    it would have to be done federally. my grandfather was an engineer who worked under the REA. had that been left to the "free market," many areas would not have had access to electricity until many decades later, if ever.

    some vital utilities may not be efficiently delivered by for-profit companies. interstate highways and the electrical grid are two excellent examples.
    So you think the Government can provide electricity MORE efficiently and for a LOWER cost? Ummm.... you have seen that the USPS is going out of business, right? You have noticed that we have a massive debt problem, right? You have noticed the government bureaucracy is a standard for everything wrong, right? What makes you think government electricity would be any different?

  8. #38
    Global Moderator
    Moderator
    Helix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:58 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    37,134

    Re: 2 Million Without Power in the Southwest

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    So you think the Government can provide electricity MORE efficiently and for a LOWER cost?
    government is more likely to build infrastructure where there might not be an immediate profit motive to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Ummm.... you have seen that the USPS is going out of business, right? You have noticed that we have a massive debt problem, right?
    yes. and that's an excellent argument for reallocation of funds and increased revenue in the form of taxes to address the debt problem and infrastructure. as for the postal service, it should be allowed to set its own first class rates, and it would be a good idea to stop requiring it to contribute more than is necessary for the pension fund, at least until it is solvent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    You have noticed the government bureaucracy is a standard for everything wrong, right?
    no. and you arguing this would be like me arguing that the financial collapse is an absolute indictment of capitalism. i do believe that capitalism has a major role (and responsibility) in bringing prosperity to our nation, but i do not believe that capitalism must play the only role.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    What makes you think government electricity would be any different?
    because the market has not provided an adequate grid to meet our current needs, and it's not just because there wasn't enough deregulation. wide swaths of the country would still be under served by the grid due to low population density and low or non-existant potential for profit. the interstate highway system is a similar situation.

    America is best served by an electrical grid with enough reserve to allow us to transition from oil to another fuel using electricity as the bridge. right now, we don't even have enough electricity to meet current demand in many areas. it has to change, and waiting for it to become profitable is not an option. energy is a national security issue, and it should be treated as such.

  9. #39
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,578

    Re: 2 Million Without Power in the Southwest

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Think of the deaths this will cause in hospitals, nevermind in regular homes from heat loss, etc.
    yeah, because it's getting cold as hell in that neck of the woods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •