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Thread: Working-age poor population highest since '60s

  1. #21
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    Re: Working-age poor population highest since '60s

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Tess there will ALWAYS be manufacturing...thats the only way to produce hard goods...automation is a thing of the past...newer technology like robots have taken some jobs.....but there would be alot more jobs in this co untry if the greedy didnt move them to china and other countries..
    It's free market economics, which is based on greed. It's not always a bad thing. China is already feeling the effects of its success, and like other low-wage countries before it, the wage advantage will erode over time.
    China's Rising Wages Propel Prices - WSJ.com

    Over many years prosperity is going to spread throughout the developing world and then developed countries like the US and those in the EU will have a more even playing field. In the meantime our only real option is to concentrate on higher value goods and intellectual capital like consulting services (see IBM), engineering services, intellectual property/patents, and the like.

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    Re: Working-age poor population highest since '60s

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Yeah, we'll always be making stuff, but humans won't be doing the making. Instead of having 1,500 men on the factory floor you'll have 100 robots or machines and maybe 50 mechanics to tend to the machines. We'll NEVER have a significant human manufacturing presence long term without extreme price increases, COL increases, and probable inflation. Relying on "new" manufacturing jobs to solve unemployment because they are "unskilled" jobs and easy to fill....it's a pipe dream. It's the wrong path to take.

    You need innovation, new ideas, new ways forward. "Unskilled" will be a thing of the past in the near-future workforce. We're going to have to focus on educating workers in high-demand fields instead of allowing the lowest common denominator to stay low, taking on unskilled positions that require little education or training. Those jobs simply aren't going to exist much longer.
    we are there already
    our workforce does not match the work needs

    plenty of decent wage jobs out there
    too few available with the skills to perform them

    a college education today is what a high school education was during our nation's golden era: the minimum standard required to enjoy a middle class lifestyle
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    Re: Working-age poor population highest since '60s

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    You need to get into reality man...china couldnt feed its people a few years go...they ate dog and cat....until OUR corporatiosn went there and exploited dirt cheap labor controlled for them by a COMMUNIST regime...they didnt have to worry about labor disputes the chinese govt would see to that...they didnt hve to worry about unions demanding more pay the chinese govt would just jail all of them....Our corporations get to conveniently turn a blind eye to the sweatshops they created that work 12 yr olds....ALL OUT OF GREED...period
    Agreed. Shareholders aren't worried about nationalism or using sweatshop and child labor in China

    Bottom line Its profit whoring

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    Re: Working-age poor population highest since '60s

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The problem with that statement is that we're manufacturing more now than we ever have. But because of computers and automation, manufacturing supports only a fraction of the employment that it once did. So what should be do? Tell manufacturers that they can't use computers and automated assembly lines? It's not going to work, any more than tariffs will work. What we need to do is develop and export intellectual capital.
    Any manufacturer who wants tariff free access to our markets should have to meet the OSHA and emissions standards that American manufacturers are subject to.

    Additionally, we have enough crumbling infrastructure to keep Americans employed for years to come. We also have a need for an expanded electrical grid to help us transition from oil. And we need people working on the next domestic source of energy. These initiatives would help to employ more Americans.

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    Re: Working-age poor population highest since '60s

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    we are there already
    our workforce does not match the work needs

    plenty of decent wage jobs out there
    too few available with the skills to perform them

    a college education today is what a high school education was during our nation's golden era: the minimum standard required to enjoy a middle class lifestyle
    I would say that it really depends on the person. I am not yet college educated but I'm in a position with a lot of advancement and significant income over the next few years, as is my boyfriend. You can still succeed without a college degree, but you cannot succeed without training and well-defined skills. There was a time when you could walk on a construction site in Texas and get a job simply by offering your labors. Today you have to have credentials and references a mile long before you'll be added on to a crew. Doesn't mean you need to go to college to build a house, but you damn sure can't expect to get the job if you're unfamiliar with the industry.
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    Re: Working-age poor population highest since '60s

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    Any manufacturer who wants tariff free access to our markets should have to meet the OSHA and emissions standards that American manufacturers are subject to.

    Additionally, we have enough crumbling infrastructure to keep Americans employed for years to come. We also have a need for an expanded electrical grid to help us transition from oil. And we need people working on the next domestic source of energy. These initiatives would help to employ more Americans.
    I agree 100% about infrastructure spending, and I think we should be spending more on alternative energy research and production.

    I sympathize with the tariff argument but I can't say I agree 100%. I think we can pressure them to improve working conditions but I don't think it's quite fair to require them to adopt our same standards -- any more than we should be required to adopt Germany's standards (yea! six weeks of vacation!). The Chinese and other developing countries have a legitimate argument insofar as we built our industrial strength with the advantage of much lower standards than we have now. They can argue that their people are better off, on the whole, being fully employed in less than ideal factories than they would be slogging around in rice fields.

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    Re: Working-age poor population highest since '60s

    I think that our OSHA and emissions requirements are not too high a bar. And it's not as if we'd be forcing anyone to adopt them. They could still export to the US and simply pay the tariff.

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    Re: Working-age poor population highest since '60s

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    I'll probably get some flak for sayin this but......

    The Chinese and Indians work harder, work smarter, live in countries with vastly lower inflation and do not have the same sense of entitlement as Americans do. Parts from China that are 1/10th the price of American manufactuers and the bull**** notion that Chinese stuff is crap simply no longer applies.
    To note

    Some Chinese work harder and smarter, not all. Plenty of Chinese are in unproductive positions just to ensure they have jobs. The couple of grocery stores I was in had clerks at the end of every isle, and at nearly every produce table. Meaning at least 3 times the people that a comparable store in Canada would have. Of course they have 40 times the population.

    Re inflation. In both India and China inflation is far higher then it is in the US or Canada, official or otherwise. The main difference is that at least in China (coastal) wages are increasing fast as well. Entitlement does not exist in China only because the government does not provide much in the way of a safety net. If you dont have family and lose your way to make an income you are screwed. Families tend to be tighter in China then in the US with 3-4 generations often living in the same house.

    As for Chinese goods, it truely depends on the company, you can get high quality goods from China, or you can get garbage from China. It truely depends on what the customer wants. If they focus on just price, they will get garbage. If you focus on quality, first the Chinese companies can produce it as well still at a lower cost then other countries
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    Re: Working-age poor population highest since '60s

    Your Chinese product costs are so much less because of a lot of factors that weight the balance. Depending on the product, they may use slave labor. We don't. Even paid labor is paid far less than what our workers are paid. Communist China provides "free medical care" and "retirement" benefits that would be unacceptable to our people. What we provide costs more, but is superior. The fact is, it would be illegal to run a business in the US the way it is run in China.

    We support capitalism and a free market. In theory, I think, we thought....the more exposure slave people have to a free society, the more dissatisfied they become until eventually, they overthrow their government. Trouble is, Chinese capitalism is a whole different breed because of the socialism and kinda ****ed up that prognostication

    Meanwhile, we dump billions and billions of dollars into the Chinese economy, which they in turn use to purchase military technology from abroad and improve their own production capability.

    Yeah, global economic practices and inequities will eventually normalize. People in other countries will start making more money. Businesses that keep on operating in America will lean out and drop things like expensive benefits. There will be less of vacuum in business. However, this will literally take many years and there are going to be some tough times in between ...

    No matter how you slice it, it's a tough sell

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    Re: Working-age poor population highest since '60s

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The problem with that statement is that we're manufacturing more now than we ever have. But because of computers and automation, manufacturing supports only a fraction of the employment that it once did. So what should be do? Tell manufacturers that they can't use computers and automated assembly lines? It's not going to work, any more than tariffs will work. What we need to do is develop and export intellectual capital.
    Most everyone will completely ignore this true argument and keep pining about off shoring, when manufacturing is still being done in the states.
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