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Thread: Libyan rebels round up black Africans

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    Re: Libyan rebels round up black Africans

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Former President George Bush visited Kuwait between April 14 and April 16, 1993, to commemorate the allied victory in the Persian Gulf War. Accompanying Bush were his wife, two of his sons, former Secretary of State James A. Baker III, former Chief of Staff John Sununu, and former Treasury Secretary Nicholas Brady.

    In late-April 1993, the United States learned that terrorists had attempted to assassinate Bush during his visit to Kuwait. The Kuwaiti authorities arrested 17 persons suspected in the plot to kill Bush using explosives hidden in a Toyota Landcruiser. The Kuwaitis recovered the Landcruiser, which contained between 80 and 90 kilograms of plastic explosives connected to a detonator ( the Bush device or Bush explosive device ). The Kuwaitis also recovered ten cube-shaped plastic explosive devices with detonators (the cube-bombs ) from the Landcruiser. Some of the suspects reportedly confessed that the Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS ) was behind the assassination attempt.

    On April 29, 1993, CIA bomb technicians compared the Bush explosive device to two known Iraqi explosive devices found in different Middle-Eastern countries in 1990 and 1991 (the Middle-East devices ) . The technicians reported that the remote control firing mechanism in the Bush device was identical to those in the Middle-East devices. Additionally, the technicians reported that blasting caps from the Bush device appeared to be identical to those found in one of the Middle-East devices. The technicians later concluded that the circuit board from the Bush device also closely resembled circuit boards from the Middle-East devices.

    In early-May 1993, the FBI sent personnel to Kuwait to interview the suspects and examine the physical evidence. FBI Special Agents, along with representatives of the Secret Service and State Department, interviewed 16 suspects, some more than once. Two of the suspects, Wali 'Abd Al-Hadi 'Abd Al-Hasan Al-Ghazali ( Al-Ghazali ) and Ra'd 'Abd Al-Amir 'Abbud Al-Asadi ( Al-Asadi ), admitted during the FBI interviews that they had participated in the plot at the direction of the IIS.
    What your quote doesn't mention is that the alleged confessions implicating the Iraqi government were elicited under torture by the Kuwaitis (who were little better than Saddam). And of course it was in Kuwait's interest to have the U.S. believe the Saddam had hatched such a plot. In other words, the evidence is at best inconclusive.

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    Re: Libyan rebels round up black Africans

    Please, do not cite the bull**** "intelligence" that the Bush administration faked up to make a case for the war. There is no evidence that Saddam was connected to al Qaeda.

    "The Sept. 11 commission reported yesterday that it has found no "collaborative relationship" between Iraq and al Qaeda, challenging one of the Bush administration's main justifications for the war in Iraq."

    "The staff report said that bin Laden "explored possible cooperation with Iraq" while in Sudan through 1996, but that "Iraq apparently never responded" to a bin Laden request for help in 1994. The commission cited reports of contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda after bin Laden went to Afghanistan in 1996, adding, "but they do not appear to have resulted in a collaborative relationship. Two senior bin Laden associates have adamantly denied that any ties existed between al Qaeda and Iraq. We have no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States."

    Al Qaeda-Hussein Link Is Dismissed (washingtonpost.com)
    Last edited by AdamT; 09-12-11 at 01:25 AM.

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    Re: Libyan rebels round up black Africans

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Please, do not cite the bull**** "intelligence" that the Bush administration faked up to make a case for the war. There is no evidence that Saddam was connected to al Qaeda.
    You can refute the evidence I provided? Let's see it.
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    Re: Libyan rebels round up black Africans

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You can refute the evidence I provided? Let's see it.
    Read the 911 report.

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    Re: Libyan rebels round up black Africans

    Leon Klinghoffer was an American citizen.

    What exactly is your point here?

    The US had plenty of reasons to engage in the Iraqi War. The decision Bush made was pretty stupid, by my reckoning, but there were plenty of valid reasons to justify it. It comes down to a judgment call. If I were in Bush's place I wouldn't have launched the war in the way he did - I would have just blown the **** out of Saddam and let some other henchman take over on the condition that the terrorism and threats to American interests had to stop. Bush felt otherwise.

    I have no clue what leftists like you believe should have been done in your were in Bush's place. Tell us, what would you have done?

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    Re: Libyan rebels round up black Africans

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    What your quote doesn't mention is that the alleged confessions implicating the Iraqi government were elicited under torture by the Kuwaitis (who were little better than Saddam). And of course it was in Kuwait's interest to have the U.S. believe the Saddam had hatched such a plot. In other words, the evidence is at best inconclusive.
    And how many wars with its neighbors did Kuwait start?
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    Re: Libyan rebels round up black Africans

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Leon Klinghoffer was an American citizen.

    What exactly is your point here?

    The US had plenty of reasons to engage in the Iraqi War. The decision Bush made was pretty stupid, by my reckoning, but there were plenty of valid reasons to justify it. It comes down to a judgment call. If I were in Bush's place I wouldn't have launched the war in the way he did - I would have just blown the **** out of Saddam and let some other henchman take over on the condition that the terrorism and threats to American interests had to stop. Bush felt otherwise.

    I have no clue what leftists like you believe should have been done in your were in Bush's place. Tell us, what would you have done?
    The answer is completely obvious to anyone with a functioning brain stem -- whether it hangs to the right or the left. There were IAEA inspectors in place in Iraq. The filed a report shortly before the invasion stating that they were receiving sufficient cooperation and that they expected they would be able to certify Iraq WMD-free in a matter of months. Bush ordered them out of the country so he could launch his idiotic invasion. Plainly the smart thing to do would have been to allow the inspections to follow their course. Then, once we were assured beyond all doubt that Iraq had no WMDs we could maintain sanctions whatever level of involvement necessary to insure that Saddam didn't pose a threat to his neighbors.

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    Re: Libyan rebels round up black Africans

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    And how many wars with its neighbors did Kuwait start?
    Why would the Kuwaitis start any wars? They were filthy rich and maintained their status using the same means that Saddam employed.

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    Re: Libyan rebels round up black Africans

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The answer is completely obvious to anyone with a functioning brain stem -- whether it hangs to the right or the left. There were IAEA inspectors in place in Iraq. The filed a report shortly before the invasion stating that they were receiving sufficient cooperation and that they expected they would be able to certify Iraq WMD-free in a matter of months. Bush ordered them out of the country so he could launch his idiotic invasion. Plainly the smart thing to do would have been to allow the inspections to follow their course. Then, once we were assured beyond all doubt that Iraq had no WMDs we could maintain sanctions whatever level of involvement necessary to insure that Saddam didn't pose a threat to his neighbors.
    Don't be so cocksure about this plan because it's based on little more than wishful thinking. The sanctions regime was disintegrating before our eyes. That's the reality that you have to address. Removing the immediate WMD infrastructure but leaving the knowledge base intact, leaving the political base intact, and leaving the financing base intact doesn't look like a viable solution.

    Would President AdamT be willing to shoulder the entire burden of blocking the entire Iraqi border for as long as Saddam remained in power? How much damage to US international prestige would you be willing to shoulder in maintain this embargo in the face of world opinion which delegitimized the imposition of sanctions and especially an embargo against Iraq because they wanted their oil and wanted to sell them wares and services?

    If you had a functioning brain stem you'd recognize the deus ex machina nature of "your plan."

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    Re: Libyan rebels round up black Africans

    I have seen some posts by people I think rather well of them, so I say don't get sucked into thinking is primarily a race based round up. It just happens that Qaddafi, picked am group willing to kill civilians was available yo exploit.

    When we see what kind of treatment the Rebels carry out upon these new prisoners and we will be able to see what is what.

    It would do us well to encourage the rebels to fair and magnanimous treatment. Dangling a fewer small carrots to encourage them to be more like us.

    I am not in favor of massive amounts and foreign relief, just as I am not in favor of Welfare for life.

    Give and hand up not a hand out.

    Always remember to do unto others as you would have others do unto you, and you will be a better person, and your rewards will be real and meaningful.

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