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Thread: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

  1. #131
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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Look, best case, they made a stupid investment, and were really stupid to promote it. Worse case, there was a pay off for campaign help. Either way, no way this doesn't hurt the president. The only real question is how much.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The interest of the taxpayer is in lower unemployment and faster development of renewable energy.
    Those are not mutually exclusive to making sure tax payers money is protected first.

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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Those are not mutually exclusive to making sure tax payers money is protected first.
    I mean, if we could waive a magic wand and only give loans to companies that would make it, we would of course do that. But in order for this effort to succeed we need to give loans to riskier companies. Those are the ones that aren't going to accomplish what we need them to accomplish with just private sector investment. So, yeah, some of them will go belly up.

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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    I mean, if we could waive a magic wand and only give loans to companies that would make it, we would of course do that.
    We are beyond that.... This was a mistake, period. Even when take a risk though, you do everything you can to protect the interests of the taxpayer first.

    But in order for this effort to succeed we need to give loans to riskier companies. Those are the ones that aren't going to accomplish what we need them to accomplish with just private sector investment. So, yeah, some of them will go belly up.
    No, we do not have to do this.

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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    I mean, if we could waive a magic wand and only give loans to companies that would make it, we would of course do that. But in order for this effort to succeed we need to give loans to riskier companies. Those are the ones that aren't going to accomplish what we need them to accomplish with just private sector investment. So, yeah, some of them will go belly up.
    So you're quite comfortable with the idea of governments giving millions of dollars to start up companies, with no measure of possible success having to be in place?

    I guess you'll feel just as comfortable with Perry, Romney or Bachman doing the same thing?

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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    They wouldnt be built in 6 years. If you understood the government system and contracting process, you would understand why it must be the way it is. Thats not a dem or a republican thing. Its a reality thing.
    You're wasting your time. He has no clue what is required before the government can design, bid, award, and administer projects. If we did it his way, it would take five years to get a porta-potty built and they would cost 5 times what one costs using IDIQ contracts. Then he would be bitching about that.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    You're wasting your time. He has no clue what is required before the government can design, bid, award, and administer projects. If we did it his way, it would take five years to get a porta-potty built and they would cost 5 times what one costs using IDIQ contracts. Then he would be bitching about that.
    Took me a while to realize that. None so blind as those that simply by damn refuse to see. Kinda surprising actually. Hadnt seen that in him before. As a Project Manager/IT Design Engineer working for the DoD...you get to know the 'system' pretty quick. Spending 4 years (multiple countries) in the middle east you get to know not only the US government contracting system but also the host nation system. The two are not compatible. Oh...you can TRY to get things accomplished. We saw projects that were held up for 9 years that we were able to get done in 2 weeks. The fed chokes on process. Its not just time...its literally millions of dollars blown on beauracracy, manpower, and wasted effort.

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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The interest of the taxpayer is in lower unemployment and faster development of renewable energy.
    We need to shrink the government, in that case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Certainly that would create jobs, but like I said, I don't support just boosting up companies at random, I think we can only justify it when it is in a sector that is particularly key to our national interests. That's why I do support it for renewable energy. But, they didn't give them money, they gave them a loan.
    Among the keys to your national interest is oil, but the government is putting roadblocks against exploration and importation. No new nuclear plants are being build, the coal industry is threatened by this administration, no more hydro electric dams under construction and forget about cutting any trees.

    The government is experimenting with alternate source of energy, making shady business deals with creepy characters, without being sure that traditional energy sources are being maintained.

    That the US Government, with no one with any business experience at the helm, has now become venture capitalists is a scary enough idea, but when they introduce their untried faculty lounge chatter to the real world, and just throw money around hoping some of it might somehow, somewhere, do some good, it becomes like a very bad movie with an insane plot and a darkly comedic set of characters.

    Would any serious person really vote for more of this?

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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Among the keys to your national interest is oil, but the government is putting roadblocks against exploration and importation.
    No, absolutely not. Allowing corporations to extract our nation's oil more rapidly and sell it on the international market is absolutely against the national interest. All it does is bring down the price worldwide ever so slightly in the short term and bring it up more significantly further down the road. Profits for those companies would go up, but it doesn't help the people. We have a finite amount of oil both in the world and in the US. Our national interest lies in stretching that out to last as long as possible, not consuming it as quickly as possible. That's not even considering global warming. When you take global warming into account, the case is even stronger that extracting it quickly is much worse than slowly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    No new nuclear plants are being build, the coal industry is threatened by this administration, no more hydro electric dams under construction and forget about cutting any trees.
    Nuclear I agree is the future. That said, government isn't really holding that back. Both parties support nuclear. Obama's energy secretary is clearly a major supporter of nuclear. But, yeah, expansion is slow. The energy secretary's stance is that the long term solution is nuclear, but it isn't really ready for primetime yet. It is still expensive and dangerous and it will take decades to switch over. His approach is to use renewables to bridge the gap between the present and when nuclear really can take over. I think that makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    That the US Government, with no one with any business experience at the helm, has now become venture capitalists is a scary enough idea, but when they introduce their untried faculty lounge chatter to the real world, and just throw money around hoping some of it might somehow, somewhere, do some good, it becomes like a very bad movie with an insane plot and a darkly comedic set of characters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    So you're quite comfortable with the idea of governments giving millions of dollars to start up companies, with no measure of possible success having to be in place?

    I guess you'll feel just as comfortable with Perry, Romney or Bachman doing the same thing?
    This all still just comes down to a fundamental misunderstanding of what these programs are there for. This isn't a money making scheme for the federal government. It isn't about investing in businesses that will yield a good return. That just isn't the goal. The goal is a policy goal- to advance renewable energy and increase employment.

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