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Thread: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Democrats complain the most loudly about the largest no-bid contract awarded...a little firm known as Haliburton. Contract awarded of course by that evil republican...Bill Clinton.
    Bush did more than his fair share of that also.

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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
    Speaking personally, my argument was against the ones that said they were the ONLY company that could do the job.

    Sometimes knowing the capability and being comfortable with a company works best in some situations.
    When IDIQs are awarded they are first offered for a general bid. The government doesnt contact contract bidders...they place the IDIQ requirement out for companies to bid against. The government uses IDIQs on a very regular basis.

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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Bush did more than his fair share of that also.
    IDIQs are in place and have been for quite a while. They are usually used when there isnt enough time to walk new contracts through the contracting and bid process. They awarded for government convenience...not for the business convenience.

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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    IDIQs are in place and have been for quite a while. They are usually used when there isnt enough time to walk new contracts through the contracting and bid process. They awarded for government convenience...not for the business convenience.
    Absolutely correct. IDIQ contracts have been used by all government agencies for many years under both Dems and Republicans. They are indispensable. I get a huge laugh when liberals start crying about "no bid contracts" because its obvious they don't have a clue how they work. Like you said, they are always bid out to as many qualified firms as want to place bids.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    IDIQs are in place and have been for quite a while. They are usually used when there isnt enough time to walk new contracts through the contracting and bid process. They awarded for government convenience...not for the business convenience.
    I don't believe it. It's the excuse the government gives. But all the same.......Bush did his fair share of it.

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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    I don't believe it. It's the excuse the government gives. But all the same.......Bush did his fair share of it.
    Dont care if you believ it or not. Its a reality. Do you realize how much it COSTS the US taxpayer is you have to bid out every job as opposed to having in-place IDIQs? Many of those IDIQs are used for the 30-60k$ jobs that come up on federal installations on a daily basis. If you follow a contracting process you have to write a proposal, submit it, rework it. Contracting office reviews. Site visits. Engineering designs and reviews. Printing costs. Proposal. Bid reviews. Alibis and second site visits. Contract award. 3-5 months later and thousands of manhours later, you have awarded a contract to have 65 feet of 72 strand fiber, trenching costs, hardware, cable trays, incidentals, etc. Its cost you around 60k$ to award a 20k$ contract. And you still have to pay the 20k$. Major facility construction takes years to work through that process.

    Imagine that on a grand scale. Imagine a separate contract for every building. Every road. Every new job (you cant bundle jobs...every single job has to go through a separate contracting process. Any project over 750k$ requires a CONZGRESSIONAL approval and oversight. Any major revision or modification that adds to the cost has to be stopped, REsubmitted to congress for review and approval. Use that snapshot and rebuild Serbia. Rebuild New Orleans. Rebuild Afghnaistan. Rebuild Iraq. You think your costs are high now? You think there are delays?

    OH...By the way...when you independently bid EACH job you have to factor in EACH company and their separate administartive costs including travel, clearances, billeting, insurance, etc.

    There IS a reason why they do what they do.
    Last edited by VanceMack; 09-21-11 at 06:25 PM.

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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Dont care if you believ it or not. Its a reality. Do you realize how much it COSTS the US taxpayer is you have to bid out every job as opposed to having in-place IDIQs? Many of those IDIQs are used for the 30-60k$ jobs that come up on federal installations on a daily basis. If you follow a contracting process you have to write a proposal, submit it, rework it. Contracting office reviews. Site visits. Engineering designs and reviews. Printing costs. Proposal. Bid reviews. Alibis and second site visits. Contract award. 3-5 months later and thousands of manhours later, you have awarded a contract to have 65 feet of 72 strand fiber, trenching costs, hardware, cable trays, incidentals, etc. Its cost you around 60k$ to award a 20k$ contract. And you still have to pay the 20k$.

    Imagine that on a grand scale. Imagine a separate contract for every building. Every road. Every new job (you cant bundle jobs...every single job has to go through a separate contracting process. Any project over 750k$ requires a CONZGRESSIONAL approval and oversight. Any major revision or modification that adds to the cost has to be stopped, REsubmitted to congress for review and approval. Use that snapshot and rebuild Serbia. Rebuild New Orleans. Rebuild Afghnaistan. Rebuild Iraq. You think your costs are high now? You think there are delays?

    OH...By the way...when you independently bid EACH job you have to factor in EACH company and their separate administartive costs including travel, clearances, billeting, insurance, etc.

    There IS a reason why they do what they do.
    Halliburton was granted huge no bid contracts. Not 30-60k contracts. Multi millions. They were slapped on the wrist over and over for screwing over the government and then still granted more and more no bid contracts.

    That it no way saved taxpayers anything. We would not be having this discussion if the problem was the government awarding a company a no bid contract to install new signs at the Washington monument.

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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Based upon what the government knew, this was an obvious "no". They were told that this company was a poor risk......but let's argue it anyway.....Let's say someone in the government decides they really believe in this company and is willing to help them. Now this company is basically bankrupt already. They are going down. Their only hope (even if very slim) is for a taxpayer bail out. In that case, the interests of the taxpayers must ALWAYS be placed first.

    If the "investors" balk at that, fine, file bankruptcy.
    Again, you don't seem to understand the point of the program. It is to boost the renewable energy sector BEYOND what private sector investors would do. The hope is that they give them a loan, they round a corner and investors take over from there. To make it a less attractive investment for private investors would be the opposite of what they're trying to do.

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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Perhaps the ideal stimulus program would be for the government to give everyone in the United States one million dollars. This wealth would be spread around the nation, everyone would be spending it on cars, clothing, fine foods etc. and the economy would recover. Do you see anything wrong with this plan?
    Certainly that would create jobs, but like I said, I don't support just boosting up companies at random, I think we can only justify it when it is in a sector that is particularly key to our national interests. That's why I do support it for renewable energy. But, they didn't give them money, they gave them a loan.

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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Where were the jobs created?
    Again, the jobs are the jobs of the people who worked there during the extra time they were able to stay afloat or that they were able to hire because they got the loan, plus the jobs created at companies selling things to those people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Handing out money to individuals is no more creating jobs than is giving out food stamps. They are both net drains on the public treasury.
    Handing out money? To individuals? What are you talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    the government is hobbling the private sector in drilling for oil, importing and refining oil. Barrack Obama has said he'll spend money on roads and bridges but where will th gas come from? Over 20,000 full time jobs are being lost because of the Administrators stalling of an oil pipeline,
    Obviously just consuming what oil we have in the ground more quickly is not in the national interest... We need to be slowing consumption as much as possible first so we don't cause as much global warming and second so we don't run out as quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    These companies were being paid for their services. What services did Solyndra render?
    Solyndra developed solar power. That is way more valuable to the country than anything Halliburton did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    My suspicions? It seems very clear what happened. Where is there any dispute in the facts?
    The facts are that we're going to run out of oil. It's going to become too expensive for most uses and if we aren't ready to switch on to renewables by then, we're totally screwed. The fact is that burning oil increases the temperature of the earth and the consequences of that are dire.

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