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Thread: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

  1. #101
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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    As the media has reported this now, as it is warranted, there is no reason to believe they won't report any findings. Now, you may HOPE it is more, but no one can honestly report that it is more until it actually is. But don't worry, political entertainers are all to often willing to make the leaps you want and you are quite free to eat that up.

    A few posts back there is a poster making the claim that the dishonesty, and incompetence, is a "policy" question.

    This is presented as fact despite all the evidence to the contrary. Now isn't time you and others began asking why this is so? Why there is not only a willingness to defend political chicanery and corruption but to define it as 'policy'?

    If there was an honest media in the US this sort of corruption would be trumpeted from every street corner and governments might be forced to be honest again. And at the very least they would not be re-elected and in the best case scenario is they they were put behind bars.

  2. #102
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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Indeed. The Bush administrations abject failure to tackle what is obviously the primary problem we need to be addressing over the next 20 years if we're going to remain a first world country is appalling. They did practically nothing to progress towards a solution despite the fact that the clock is rapidly ticking down.
    Ahhh, so it is Bush's fault that he did not jump at the chance to throw taxpayer's money down the drain...........

    What took you so long ???

    Idon't think you understand the purpose here. This wasn't a money making gambit for the federal government... The government is trying to push renewable energy along FASTER than the market would on its own. Just behaving like a private sector investment firm obviously wouldn't accomplish that, right?
    Oh, I understand completely. You on the other hand don't have a clue. It is NOT the role of government to wantonly waste taxpayers money. In fact there are laws against it.

    You are right about one thing........it was NOT a money making gambit by Obama and his crew, it was a vote and campaign money ploy that has now backfired in their face. They will now have to face the music. I can't wait to see your response when indictments begin to be handed down.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    A few posts back there is a poster making the claim that the dishonesty, and incompetence, is a "policy" question.

    This is presented as fact despite all the evidence to the contrary. Now isn't time you and others began asking why this is so? Why there is not only a willingness to defend political chicanery and corruption but to define it as 'policy'?

    If there was an honest media in the US this sort of corruption would be trumpeted from every street corner and governments might be forced to be honest again. And at the very least they would not be re-elected and in the best case scenario is they they were put behind bars.
    Please, media loves a good scandle. Always has and always will. No difference here. You also see through the biased lense of your own eye. You want to see the worse, and so you will, unless of course it is with your guy.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Ahhh, so it is Bush's fault that he did not jump at the chance to throw taxpayer's money down the drain...........

    What took you so long ???
    It is largely Bush's fault that we're 8 years behind where we should be today in energy policy, yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Oh, I understand completely. You on the other hand don't have a clue. It is NOT the role of government to wantonly waste taxpayers money. In fact there are laws against it.
    Wantonly waste? It's a program designed to jump start the renewable energy sector and boost jobs. That isn't a waste. Obviously not every company will succeed... And that certainly is not illegal. In fact, the program IS A LAW. It was passed by Congress and whatnot... Not sure where you're getting the idea that to try to jump start a sector that is obviously key to our national interest is illegal...
    Last edited by teamosil; 09-21-11 at 03:31 PM.

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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Well, whatever you want to call it. You can't simultaneously argue that not creating jobs is incompetence and at the same time argue that creating jobs is incompetence. You need to pick one.
    Explain how giving a half billion dollars to an already established company that is going down the crapper, creates jobs.

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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Explain how giving a half billion dollars to an already established company that is going down the crapper, creates jobs.
    Well, even in this worst case scenario it would have keep the company afloat for more months, meaning more jobs. $500 million more was paid to people in salaries who in turn spent it on things which required employees to make those things. But, this is the worst case scenario. You can't judge the whole program just based on the one worst case outcome obviously.

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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Well, whatever you want to call it. You can't simultaneously argue that not creating jobs is incompetence and at the same time argue that creating jobs is incompetence. You need to pick one.
    Where were the jobs created? Handing out money to individuals is no more creating jobs than is giving out food stamps. They are both net drains on the public treasury.


    The private sector isn't the right tool for all tasks. Private companies look at next quarter profits almost exclusively.
    While the government is in the business of losing money. They know how to spend but that's where their talents end. They do not contribute to the public wealth.
    Sometimes particularly long sighted ones look a year out. Renewable energy returns are farther out than that, so the private sector isn't as interested as the opportunity merits.
    the government is hobbling the private sector in drilling for oil, importing and refining oil. Barrack Obama has said he'll spend money on roads and bridges but where will th gas come from? Over 20,000 full time jobs are being lost because of the Administrators stalling of an oil pipeline,
    Can I ask, were you proportionally more upset by the money given to Halliburton and KBR? They had a much, much, closer tie to the administration and received radically more money. And that money was in the form of no-bid contracts instead of loans, which is obviously much worse.
    These companies were being paid for their services. What services did Solyndra render?
    The views of scientists and experts are a more reliable source of information than the gut feelings of a poster on the internet with no actual information about the topic, so your suspicion doesn't change my views.
    My suspicions? It seems very clear what happened. Where is there any dispute in the facts?

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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Well, even in this worst case scenario it would have keep the company afloat for more months, meaning more jobs. $500 million more was paid to people in salaries who in turn spent it on things which required employees to make those things. But, this is the worst case scenario. You can't judge the whole program just based on the one worst case outcome obviously.
    Perhaps the ideal stimulus program would be for the government to give everyone in the United States one million dollars. This wealth would be spread around the nation, everyone would be spending it on cars, clothing, fine foods etc. and the economy would recover. Do you see anything wrong with this plan?

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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    A year or two ago I did a Google search for no-bid government contracts. At especially the state and local levels you will find both Democrats and Republicans criticizing both Republicans and Democrats for committing crony capitalism.

    And everybody doing nothing but pointing fingers at the other party for the kickbacks they dole out to their own corporate patrons does little to actually address the problems of this issue.
    Democrats complain the most loudly about the largest no-bid contract awarded...a little firm known as Haliburton. Contract awarded of course by that evil republican...Bill Clinton.

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    Re: Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Well, even in this worst case scenario it would have keep the company afloat for more months, meaning more jobs. $500 million more was paid to people in salaries who in turn spent it on things which required employees to make those things. But, this is the worst case scenario. You can't judge the whole program just based on the one worst case outcome obviously.
    Based upon what the government knew, this was an obvious "no". They were told that this company was a poor risk......but let's argue it anyway.....Let's say someone in the government decides they really believe in this company and is willing to help them. Now this company is basically bankrupt already. They are going down. Their only hope (even if very slim) is for a taxpayer bail out. In that case, the interests of the taxpayers must ALWAYS be placed first.

    If the "investors" balk at that, fine, file bankruptcy.

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