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Thread: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    The root problem is education and I think it should be privatized. Public education in America needs a hard reset. ...And a future without the Department of Education or the teachers union.

    The whole system needs to be torn down and replaced a system that rewards high performance rather than simply union membership
    Parents need the hard reset. The only change needed in schools is adding a required course at the start of high school to teach about jobs and the required training to get them. One of my ex-girlfriends taught elementary school math in an area where all her students were black. She'd go around the room and ask the kids what they wanted to be. She said all the boys would choose either rapper or athlete. Start teaching kids about how some jobs require luck, and thus you need to have a fallback plan for a good job which requires little or no luck. Those boys can pursue their rapper or athlete goals while getting an education. The parents and school need to beat the value of education into them to the point that they can't blame anyone else if they don't listen.
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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    Parents need the hard reset. The only change needed in schools is adding a required course at the start of high school to teach about jobs and the required training to get them. One of my ex-girlfriends taught elementary school math in an area where all her students were black. She'd go around the room and ask the kids what they wanted to be. She said all the boys would choose either rapper or athlete. Start teaching kids about how some jobs require luck, and thus you need to have a fallback plan for a good job which requires little or no luck. Those boys can pursue their rapper or athlete goals while getting an education. The parents and school need to beat the value of education into them to the point that they can't blame anyone else if they don't listen.
    I'll do this short and sweet.....Be it white, black, brown or yellow

    Public education is a nanny state institution. You can't **** around that. Prisons are another nanny state institution where we shouldn't be tolerating any bull****, but that's whole other discussion.

    Schools are where kids spend 40+ hours a week. Unfortunately in many cases they have a more influential role in child development and socialization than the family does. I think allowing a culture of ignorance to exist and become pervasive in our school system borders on criminal malfeasance on the part of our society. Ignoring kids when they **** up is how we got into this mess in the first place. They are free to pursue happiness when they graduate, get a job and start paying taxes. But while they're on a full ride scholarship to the public school system I want to see kids doing good things that will benefit them, not to mention our society as they transition into adulthood.

    I'd like see kids graduate from high school knowing how to read and write at the college level, speak multiple languages in addition to English, understand math up through algebra, and be able to manage their own personal finances. I'd like them to understand civics and history to the point where they become critical thinking, active members of our political system. I'd like them to be able to successfully participate in some sort of extra curricular activity that enriches their childhood experience and teaches them character and maturity. In short, I'd be really happy if an American kid could graduate high school and be prepared to either continue on to college or successfully enter the job market. And I'd like to see a culture within the school system that promotes these behaviors and outcomes. Conversely, I'd also like that culture to be intolerant of behaviors that are detrimental to these goals. A culture were it doesn't seem like a reasonable choice to act like a thug, get your girlfriend pregnant, etc, etc...

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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    I think that this is a problem not just for the black community but for poor people of all colors. If we would actually invest in these kids and allow them to get a good education and be able to get into college, then I think that America would be much better off because we'd have more innovation and creativity, thus making us more competitive. While I agree that there are some things within urban culture that need to be suited out, I think that we would see a serious turn around if the government invested in these communities instead of abandoning them.

    EDIT: Also when one looks at education, we must look at the a phenomenon which has been called "The Dumbing Down of America" (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/02/0...g-down-of.html) (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=44337) (http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/02/05-5) which efffects all people as it leaves kids memorizing facts and regurgitating them on paper and the kids then think that they are smart. The game has been changed from one of actual knowledge to one of memorization. If you can memorize the most information and regurgitate it the correct way, then you are considered "smart." However, many of these kids that can do that cannot think independently or critically.
    Last edited by Mr. Invisible; 09-04-11 at 03:58 PM.
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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Just as an example....

    Back in the day pregnancy was about the worst nightmare that could happen to a high school girl. They had to quit school, maybe even move away. It was a big deal. Now high schools have day care for students with kids. No ****ing ****. There is no social stigma around teen pregnancy anymore and guess what .....everyone's getting knocked up. Amazing. But to the moral relativists running public education, ruining one teenage girl's life is much worse than enabling a behavior that will ruin thousands of teenage girl's lives. And I think that's ****ed up.

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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    The root problem is education and I think it should be privatized. Public education in America needs a hard reset. ...And a future without the Department of Education or the teachers union.

    The whole system needs to be torn down and replaced a system that rewards high performance rather than simply union membership
    I greatly disagree with you because of privatizing education, one actual limits the amount of people who can get a quality education. That is why you see in Europe and other places (and even in the US 100 years ago) that college is either low-cost or free and people get a quality education. That is because (at least back in the day) the Europeans and the Americans understood that in order to have a good government that wouldn't overstep its boundaries, that would do what the people wanted it to, you needed an educated, politically active populous.

    Right now the quality of one's education depends on money, when it should be based on merit instead. Personally, I'd like to see us adopt a system that is something akin to the one in Turkey where kid's get into school based solely on their grades.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Perhaps this is news to you Henrin - slavery is a historical reality. Bringing it up is not asking for a fight. It is merely introducing a part of the historical record.
    So is the Jolly Roger flag but just like bring up slavery to counter my argument it wouldn't do much to reach that goal.
    Last edited by Henrin; 09-04-11 at 04:11 PM.

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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    I'll do this short and sweet.....Be it white, black, brown or yellow

    Public education is a nanny state institution. You can't **** around that. Prisons are another nanny state institution where we shouldn't be tolerating any bull****, but that's whole other discussion.

    Schools are where kids spend 40+ hours a week. Unfortunately in many cases they have a more influential role in child development and socialization than the family does. I think allowing a culture of ignorance to exist and become pervasive in our school system borders on criminal malfeasance on the part of our society. Ignoring kids when they **** up is how we got into this mess in the first place. They are free to pursue happiness when they graduate, get a job and start paying taxes. But while they're on a full ride scholarship to the public school system I want to see kids doing good things that will benefit them, not to mention our society as they transition into adulthood.

    I'd like see kids graduate from high school knowing how to read and write at the college level, speak multiple languages in addition to English, understand math up through algebra, and be able to manage their own personal finances. I'd like them to understand civics and history to the point where they become critical thinking, active members of our political system. I'd like them to be able to successfully participate in some sort of extra curricular activity that enriches their childhood experience and teaches them character and maturity. In short, I'd be really happy if an American kid could graduate high school and be prepared to either continue on to college or successfully enter the job market. And I'd like to see a culture within the school system that promotes these behaviors and outcomes. Conversely, I'd also like that culture to be intolerant of behaviors that are detrimental to these goals. A culture were it doesn't seem like a reasonable choice to act like a thug, get your girlfriend pregnant, etc, etc...
    Well, IMO, if the school is having the more influential role then the parent isn't doing their job in some sense. The teachers can teach and try to motivate these students, but parents are the only ones allowed to discipline them for lack of effort. I'll teach people fairly, but if a student chooses to slack then I'm not going to slow down for them because it hurts those students who are paying attention and can excel.

    If the parents are poor then you'd think they'd emphasize hard study to their kids to get them out of lower-class. My mother had me less than two months after HS graduation and was kicked out of the house by my grandfather. I promise you that getting where I am wasn't luck. I had made my career plans by 14 and stuck to them. Instead of playing Nintendo, I put in extra study time to get ahead.

    I want to see the much of what you stated, and it starts with the parents.
    "With me everything turns into mathematics."
    "It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well."
    "It is truth very certain that, when it is not in one's power to determine what is true, we ought to follow what is more probable." -- Rene Descartes

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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    This is a problem, but even when controlling for educational differences and qualifications, there still exists a discrepancy. It's right there in the OP, if you had read carefully. Racism may or may not explain that difference, but clearly everything you've laid out about education here has already been accounted for.
    Research clearly demonstrates that employers are evaluating and rewarding the eduction/cognition combination where education is taken as a rough metric or proxy for cognition, but when the two are isolated from each other and studied separately, the reward for the education with cognitive abilities controlled is minimal. What employers really want is smart workers much more so than educated workers.

    That report didn't control for cognition. Education and cognition don't go hand in hand.

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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Research clearly demonstrates that employers are evaluating and rewarding the eduction/cognition combination where education is taken as a rough metric or proxy for cognition, but when the two are isolated from each other and studied separately, the reward for the education with cognitive abilities controlled is minimal. What employers really want is smart workers much more so than educated workers.

    That report didn't control for cognition. Education and cognition don't go hand in hand.
    I have a Masters Degree in Education and I don't have the slightest idea what the hell you are talking about.
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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Its the stereotypes built into our everyday lives. Don't act like you have never heard them before. Mexican people are illegal immigrants, belong to gangs, steal stuff, and are poor, black people are lazy, have "welfare queen" moms, eat fried chicken and watermelon, white people can't jump, blondes are dumb, etc... the list goes on. They aren't true most the time, but because of the stereotypes built up in American society over the years people more quickly jump to these conclusions.
    It's funny that you mention stereotypes, in that stereotypes are the victim of stereotyping, as you've described stereotyping. Do you follow? You claim that stereotype are inaccurate most of the time and people believe the stereotypes. Well, research shows that most stereotypes are true and yet believe believe the opposite of them. From the American Psychological Association comes this research-based textbook:


    Stereotype Accuracy: Toward Appreciating Group Differences

    Social psychology has been dominated over the past 20 years with a focus on error and bias in social perception. By psychologists and lay people alike, stereotypes are assumed to be bad and inaccurate. The idea that stereotypes may have some degree of accuracy has been seen as anathema, and those raising the question of stereotype accuracy have been viewed as racist, sexist, or worse.

    Stereotype Accuracy breaks this taboo by presenting research related to stereotype accuracy, arguing that understanding stereotype accuracy is crucial to both social psychology and to its applications (e.g., to improving intergroup relations). The goals of this volume are to reduce commonplace errors in modern social science by challenging the off-hand and undocumented claims appearing in the scholarly literature that stereotypes are "typically" inaccurate, resistant to change, overgeneralized, exaggerated, and generally destructive.

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