Page 59 of 63 FirstFirst ... 9495758596061 ... LastLast
Results 581 to 590 of 629

Thread: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

  1. #581
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    I really get a laugh when the left calls Republicans and conservatives "fascists" and "Nazis". Nazi is short for Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, or National Socialist Workers Party. Socialist.
    I'll just leave you with this since you're clearly beyond fruitful discourse at this point:

    Hitler's views on economics, beyond his early belief that the economy was of secondary importance, are a matter of debate. On the one hand, he proclaimed in one of his speeches that "we are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system",[9] but he was clear to point out that his interpretation of socialism "has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism," saying that "Marxism is anti-property; true Socialism is not."[10] At a later time, Hitler said: "Socialism! That is an unfortunate word altogether... What does socialism really mean? If people have something to eat and their pleasures, then they have their socialism."[11] In private, Hitler also said that "I absolutely insist on protecting private property... we must encourage private initiative".[12] On yet another occasion he qualified that statement by saying that the government should have the power to regulate the use of private property for the good of the nation.[13] Hitler clearly believed that the lack of a precise economic programme was one of the Nazi Party's strengths, saying: "The basic feature of our economic theory is that we have no theory at all."[14] While not espousing a specific economic philosophy, Hitler employed anti-semitic themes to attack economic systems in other countries, associating ethnic Jews with both communism ("Jewish Bolsheviks") and capitalism, both of which he opposed.[15][16] Hitler also believed that individuals within a nation battled with each other for survival, and that such ruthless competition was good for the health of the nation, because it promoted "superior individuals" to higher positions in society.[17]

    The Holocaust - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Nazism possessed the main aspects of right-wing ideology: nationalism, rejection of social equality and egalitarianism, populism, ethno-national supremacist ideals, rejection of trade unions, social Darwinism and militarism. Moreover, whatever amount of "socialism" existed in Nazi Germany is not enough to be considered traditionally socialist since there was a fair amount of private industry within Nazi Germany. Finally, Hitler removed or killed SOCIALISTS, MARXISTS and most other left-wing individuals specifically because he despised them and their ideologies.

  2. #582
    Sage
    RiverDad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    04-20-14 @ 02:16 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    5,039

    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Eugenics wasn't a "progressive" movement - that revisionism.
    This is your history, own it. All those rubes in the Churches were adamantly opposed to Eugenics for it violated God's laws - man was interfering with procreation, eugenics was treating man like he was an animal to be bred. It was the Progressives and the Socialists who went bonkers for this idea. There is no revisionism here - the records are very clear on this. The fact that you don't like it means squat.

    If you want to talk revisionism, then take a look at what the Smithsonian Museum has done with their revision of Sanger's history:





    Journal of Economic Perspective

    Eugenic ideas were not new in the Progressive Era, but they acquired new impetus with the Progressive Era advent of a more expansive government. In effect, the expansion of state power meant that it became possible to have not only eugenic thought, but also eugenic practice. As eugenics historian Diane Paul (1995, p. 6) writes, eugenics legislation had to await “the rise of the welfare state.”

    Progressives were drawn to eugenics by the same set of intellectual commitments that drew them to reform legislation. Paramount was the reform idea that laissez-faire was bankrupt. Sidney Webb (1910–1911, p. 237) said flatly, “[N]o consistent eugenicist can be a ‘Laisser Faire’ individualist unless he throws up the game in despair. He must interfere, interfere, interfere!” Similarly, Frank Fetter (1907, pp. 92–93) pronounced at the AEA meetings: “Unless effective means are found to check the degeneration of the race, the noontide of humanity’s greatness is nigh, if not already passed. Our optimism must be based not upon laissez-faire,” said Fetter, “but upon vigorous application of science, humanity, and legislative art to the solution of the problem.”

    Progressive opposition to laissez faire was motivated by a set of deep intellectual commitments regarding the relationship between social science, social scientific expertise and right governance. The progressives were committed to 1) the explanatory power of scientific (especially statistical) social inquiry to get at the root causes of social and economic problems; 2) the legitimacy of social control, which derives from a holist conception of society as prior to and greater than the sum of its constituent individuals; 3) the efficacy of social control via expert management of public administration; where 4) expertise is both sufficient and necessary for the task of wise public administration.

    It is no accident that so many notable eugenicists were pioneers in statistics. Francis Galton, Karl Pearson and Ronald A. Fisher were all founders of modern statistics and were, in addition, leading lights in the eugenics movement. Many proponents of eugenics in economics were also statistically oriented. Francis Amasa Walker, Richmond Mayo-Smith, Irving Fisher and Walter Wilcox were all statisticians, by training and/or by inclination. They regarded statistical measurement and inference as the method that put the “science” in social science.

    Karl Pearson’s (1909, pp. 19–20) “bricks for the foundations” of eugenics emphasized statistical methods as the guarantor of better social science: “[first] we depart from the old sociology, in that we desert verbal discussion for statistical facts, and [second] we apply new methods of statistics which form practically a new calculus.” American progressives also saw statistics as providing a scientific foundation for their legislative reforms. Said reformer Lester Ward (1915, p. 46): “if laws of social events could be statistically formulated, they could be used for scientific lawmaking.”. . . . . . . . . .

    American eugenics went into decline in the 1930s, increasingly burdened by its political, demographic and scientific liabilities. Politically, the close association of eugenic ideas with the Nazi regime increasingly discredited American eugenic policies, and the newly powerful Catholic Church also opposed eugenics, both because Church doctrine forbade interference with conception and because many American Catholics belonged to groups the eugenicists considered unfit. But the Progressive Era vogue for eugenics was also undone by demographic and scientific developments.


    Also, I'm still waiting for you to admit that you lied about one of my previous posts.
    I don't need to lie about any of your posts. I destroy them just fine by using your own words against you.
    Last edited by RiverDad; 09-14-11 at 10:37 PM.

  3. #583
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    The first thing the Nazi's did was to nationalize all the German industry and everything else they could get their hands on. That's totally counter to "right wing" conservative thinking. I think you are confusing "right wing" with "anti communist" or "nationalist", which the Nazi's certainly were. Read up on it and you will find that Nazi ideology is startlingly similar to the American left wing hippie ideology of today, ...minus the nationalism.

    The nationalism part is what makes it confusing for most folks *like YOU* these days.
    This is so assinine it's hardly worth addressing, but nonetheless.... Hitler was a dictator, a nationalist, and a fascist. Hence the right-wing description (fascism is considered right wing, though it is not the same thing as conservatism). He clearly was not a socialist. He often crticized Marx. One of the first things he *actually* did was break up the unions and make collective bargaining illegal. There was a socialist branch in the early Nazi party, but they were purged as soon as Hitler came to power. In 1930, Hitler said: "Our adopted term ‘Socialist’ has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism."

    The truth is that nazism was unlike both today's liberalism and today's conservatism. Hitler had some beliefs held by today's conservatives and ohter beliefs held by today's liberals. And of course he had many views that are only held today by despicable white supremacists.
    Last edited by AdamT; 09-15-11 at 12:05 AM.

  4. #584
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    I really get a laugh when the left calls Republicans and conservatives "fascists" and "Nazis". Nazi is short for Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, or National Socialist Workers Party. Socialist.
    Again, this is ridiculous. East Germany was officially called the German Democratic Republic, but there was nothing democratic or republican about it. The official name of North Vietnam was the Democratic Republic of Vietnam. Again, there was nothing democratic or republican about it. This is a completely trivial argument.

  5. #585
    Sage
    RiverDad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    04-20-14 @ 02:16 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    5,039

    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    One of the first things he *actually* did was break up the unions and make collective bargaining illegal.
    You think that the Soviet Union was a hotbed of unions and collective bargaining?

  6. #586
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    You think that the Soviet Union was a hotbed of unions and collective bargaining?
    I think it was indeed a hotbed of unions, though there wasn't much collective bargaining. But it's not a very good analogy, as Hitler did not nationalize industry the way that the USSR did.

  7. #587
    Sage
    ric27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Last Seen
    06-15-17 @ 02:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,539

    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    This is so assinine it's hardly worth addressing, but nonetheless.... Hitler was a dictator, a nationalist, and a fascist. Hence the right-wing description (fascism is considered right wing, though it is not the same thing as conservatism). He clearly was not a socialist. He often crticized Marx. One of the first things he *actually* did was break up the unions and make collective bargaining illegal. There was a socialist branch in the early Nazi party, but they were purged as soon as Hitler came to power. In 1930, Hitler said: "Our adopted term ‘Socialist’ has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism."

    The truth is that nazism was unlike both today's liberalism and today's conservatism. Hitler had some beliefs held by today's conservatives and ohter beliefs held by today's liberals. And of course he had many views that are only held today by despicable white supremacists.



  8. #588
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Jonah Goldberg -- now there's an unbiased source.

  9. #589
    Sage
    RiverDad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    04-20-14 @ 02:16 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    5,039

    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I think it was indeed a hotbed of unions, though there wasn't much collective bargaining. But it's not a very good analogy, as Hitler did not nationalize industry the way that the USSR did.




    Unlike labor unions in the West, Soviet trade unions were, in fact, actually governmental organizations whose chief aim was not to represent workers but to further the goals of management, government, and the CPSU. As such, they were partners of management in attempting to promote labor discipline, worker morale, and productivity. Unions organized "socialist competitions" and awarded prizes for fulfilling quotas.


    You pointing to the Nazis disbanding labor unions as a sign that they weren't truly socialist kind of fails when worker interests in the socialist motherland were similarly jettisoned overboard.

  10. #590
    Sage
    ric27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Last Seen
    06-15-17 @ 02:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,539

Page 59 of 63 FirstFirst ... 9495758596061 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •