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Thread: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

  1. #571
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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    lol...You're out of your lane and you will get hammered here, dude.
    I'm scared.

    The political left has been very successful in associating the political right with NAZIism and fascism. If you tell a lie long enough, people will believe it. Take out the uniforms, the German language and the genocide (for now) and you get the American left. Control of industry, schools, indoctrination of the youth, class warfare, confiscation of the property of the targeted class, etc. And do it all for the people.
    Or your perception of the American left.

    Both Dem Socialism and Social Democracies have their origins firmly rooted in Nazi economic policy.
    Socialist ideas came before Nazism. So the idea that their origins are in Nazism is nonsensical.

    If you pick at them a little, most of our modern liberals will admit their long term goal is to reform America into a "Social Democracy".
    No.

    Nazism came from the left, not the right.
    No.

    Nazis, socialists, communists, Marxists, etc. are all on the left. The reason liberals refuse to admit that is because it too uncomfortable to face the fact that liberalism (American style) is just another version of leftist thought. Liberals are the ones who want to micro-manage and control every aspect of daily life, not conservatives.
    Most liberals aren't afraid to say they are on the left - in fact, liberals always say they are on the left because...they are on the left. Most liberals also aren't reluctant to admit that there are left-wing extremist ideologies like Maoism. What liberals are reluctant to do is pretend that right-wing extremist is a left-wing extremist and the Nazis were right-wing extremists.

    Nazism had both right-wing AND left-wing aspects to it, but it was overwhelmingly right wing particularly with regards to its nationalist sentiments. Moreover, Nazis were vehemently against liberalism, Marxism and communism. Although it was also anti-capitalism, it promoted a certain type of right-wing socialism.
    Last edited by ThePlayDrive; 09-14-11 at 01:36 PM.

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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post


    Socialist ideas came before Nazism. So the idea that their origins are in Nazism is nonsensical.
    Of course they did, it was not claimed otherwise. but the National Socialists adopted the theories.

    "We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --Adolf Hitler

    (Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)


    Hitler was a Leftist

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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Of course they did, it was not claimed otherwise.
    Actually, ric7 explicitly said that Democratic Socialism and Social Democracy have their origins in Nazism which is beyond false. How am I supposed to take you seriously when you refuse to even read a single sentence?

    Also, Hitler was a right wing extremist who supported a particular form of right-wing socialism. No amount of revisionism will change this.

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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Actually, ric7 explicitly said that Democratic Socialism and Social Democracy have their origins in Nazism which is beyond false. How am I supposed to take you seriously when you refuse to even read a single sentence?
    If he made the statement then you should quote it in order to justify your response.

    Also, Hitler was a right wing extremist who supported a particular form of right-wing socialism. No amount of revisionism will change this.
    Right wing socialism, huh?

    You should be very suspicious of anything called "National Socialism" and then assume that it is 'right wing'. Chances are you're being suckered again, just as the Left have always been suckers for the "S" word. Put Socialism or Socialist in the title of the party and they'll overlook or ignore any horror in order to justify their political and economic fantasies.

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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Actually, ric7 explicitly said that Democratic Socialism and Social Democracy have their origins in Nazism which is beyond false. How am I supposed to take you seriously when you refuse to even read a single sentence?

    Also, Hitler was a right wing extremist who supported a particular form of right-wing socialism. No amount of revisionism will change this.
    The first thing the Nazi's did was to nationalize all the German industry and everything else they could get their hands on. That's totally counter to "right wing" conservative thinking. I think you are confusing "right wing" with "anti communist" or "nationalist", which the Nazi's certainly were. Read up on it and you will find that Nazi ideology is startlingly similar to the American left wing hippie ideology of today, ...minus the nationalism.

    The nationalism part is what makes it confusing for most folks *like YOU* these days.

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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    If he made the statement then you should quote it in order to justify your response.
    I quoted his post in my original comment. That's the point.

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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    The first thing the Nazi's did was to nationalize all the German industry and everything else they could get their hands on. That's totally counter to "right wing" conservative thinking. I think you are confusing "right wing" with "anti communist" or "nationalist", which the Nazi's certainly were. Read up on it and you will find that Nazi ideology is startlingly similar to the American left wing hippie ideology of today, ...minus the nationalism.
    First, the majority of "left wing" individuals in this country do not socialism so suggesting that we do automatically lowers your credibility.

    Second, the Nazis did not nationalize all of German industry. They did nationalize SOME of it which is, in fact, a left-wing aspect of Nazi philosophy which I already said existed.

    Third, the rest of Nazism was overwhelming right-wing: nationalism, supremacist ideals, militarism, eugenics, etc. Hitler hated pretty much everything about left-wing politics which is why leftists were one of his targets for the Holocaust. He purposely executed SOCIALISTS, communists, liberals, trade unionists, Marxists and most other members of the left-wing in Germany.

    Here's a good explanation of Hitler's economic ideology and the reason why most historians put him in the right-wing category:

    Hitler's views on economics, beyond his early belief that the economy was of secondary importance, are a matter of debate. On the one hand, he proclaimed in one of his speeches that "we are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system",[9] but he was clear to point out that his interpretation of socialism "has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism," saying that "Marxism is anti-property; true Socialism is not."[10] At a later time, Hitler said: "Socialism! That is an unfortunate word altogether... What does socialism really mean? If people have something to eat and their pleasures, then they have their socialism."[11] In private, Hitler also said that "I absolutely insist on protecting private property... we must encourage private initiative".[12] On yet another occasion he qualified that statement by saying that the government should have the power to regulate the use of private property for the good of the nation.[13] Hitler clearly believed that the lack of a precise economic programme was one of the Nazi Party's strengths, saying: "The basic feature of our economic theory is that we have no theory at all."[14] While not espousing a specific economic philosophy, Hitler employed anti-semitic themes to attack economic systems in other countries, associating ethnic Jews with both communism ("Jewish Bolsheviks") and capitalism, both of which he opposed.[15][16] Hitler also believed that individuals within a nation battled with each other for survival, and that such ruthless competition was good for the health of the nation, because it promoted "superior individuals" to higher positions in society.[17]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust#Non_Jewish
    Quote Originally Posted by ric27
    The nationalism part is what makes it confusing for most folks *like YOU* these days.
    I hope that wasn't supposed to be an insult because you just put me in the category of most historians which is a category I'll gladly belong to.

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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Third, the rest of Nazism was overwhelming right-wing: nationalism, supremacist ideals, militarism, eugenics, etc.
    This is a laugh-riot to read. All you're doing is identifying characteristics and then assigning them to the Right because you don't like the Right.

    Eugenics was a Progressive movement and the groups that fought against Eugenics were those stodgy religious church groups that the Left still mocks to this day.


    They were all bent on breeding a eugenically superior race, just as agronomists would breed better strains of corn. The plan was to wipe away the reproductive capability of the weak and inferior. Ultimately, 60,000 Americans were coercively sterilized legally and extra-legally. Many never discovered the truth until decades later. Those who actively supported eugenics include America's most progressive figures: Woodrow Wilson, Margaret Sanger, and Oliver Wendell Holmes who ruled on the infamous Carrie Buck trial and declared "three generations of imbeciles is enough."

    American eugenic crusades proliferated into a worldwide campaign, and in the 1920s came to the attention of Adolf Hitler. Under the Nazis, American eugenic principles were applied without restraint, careening out of control into the Reich's infamous genocide. During the pre-War years, American eugenicists openly supported Germany's program.


    As for supremacist ideals, they still infuse and animate the Left to this day - the Left thinks that they're more intelligent, more enlightened, and just all around higher developed beings than their political opponents. It was the same back in the Nazi era. This ego-inflating belief is seen in modern day progressives, the original progressives, socialists, communist, Marxist, for all all believe in the a New Man, someone who is unshackled from many limitations by adopting the correct and enlightened political and ideological principles.

    As for nationalism, yes that is more frequently seen on the Right than on the Left, but with respect to Nazism, that alone doesn't mean anything for there was an ideological battle taking place in the socialist movement between "International Socialism" (the Communists) and "National Socialism" (The Nazis). This battle was ideological fratricide - the fight was about which variant of socialism was best.

    Even on the issue of militarism, this is not a strictly Right wing phenomenon, for some of the most Communist countries were the biggest practitioners of militarism.

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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    This is a laugh-riot to read. All you're doing is identifying characteristics and then assigning them to the Right because you don't like the Right.

    Eugenics was a Progressive movement and the groups that fought against Eugenics were those stodgy religious church groups that the Left still mocks to this day.
    Eugenics wasn't a "progressive" movement - that revisionism. Eugenics was wildly popular in the United States in general although that support died quickly after the whole Nazi fiasco. However, eugenics is primarily associated with right-wing politics because of the fact that right wing extremism is more closely associated with ideas of supremacy based in nationalism and rejection of social equality.

    Regardless, take out eugenics and you're still left with nationalism, rejection of social equality/egalitarianism, rejection of trade unionism, supremacist ideals and targeted removal or execution of left-wing members - all prominent aspects of Nazism and right-wing extremism.

    As for supremacist ideals, they still infuse and animate the Left to this day - the Left thinks that they're more intelligent, more enlightened, and just all around higher developed beings than their political opponents. It was the same back in the Nazi era. This ego-inflating belief is seen in modern day progressives, the original progressives, socialists, communist, Marxist, for all all believe in the a New Man, someone who is unshackled from many limitations by adopting the correct and enlightened political and ideological principles.
    Dude, every group thinks they have something against opposing groups. However, left-wing ideology primarily advocates social equality and right-wing ideology, particularly extremist right-wing ideology, rejects this nation and enters into supremacist ideals particularly with regards to ethno-national groups.

    As for nationalism, yes that is more frequently seen on the Right than on the Left, but with respect to Nazism, that alone doesn't mean anything for there was an ideological battle taking place in the socialist movement between "International Socialism" (the Communists) and "National Socialism" (The Nazis). This battle was ideological fratricide - the fight was about which variant of socialism was best.
    Nationalism is bottom-line a right wing ideology. I'm not interested in your rationalizations. Germany was a very just straight up nationalistic nation and that can't be softened with your "but it was really about socialism" talk.

    Even on the issue of militarism, this is not a strictly Right wing phenomenon, for some of the most Communist countries were the biggest practitioners of militarism.
    Please show me where I said that militarism was strictly a right-wing phenomenon.

    Also, I'm still waiting for you to admit that you lied about one of my previous posts.

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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post

    Also, Hitler was a right wing extremist who supported a particular form of right-wing socialism. No amount of revisionism will change this.
    I really get a laugh when the left calls Republicans and conservatives "fascists" and "Nazis". Nazi is short for Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, or National Socialist Workers Party. Socialist.

    Fascism was coined by Benito Mussolini and was derived from the Italian word fascio, which means bundle or union. Socialism.

    The Fascists of Italy and the Nazis of Germany were not right wing, they were left wing. Socialists. Little different from the Communists they hated. And the goal of the American socialist left, i.e. Democratic party.

    You seem confused because the Nazi's had snappy looking uniforms.

    Conservatives, i.e. the right, have been the champion of individual rights and the least amount of government and government control. The "far right" is not fascism, it is anarchism. No government, no controls, only the individual. So the spectrum isn't a circle with far right being virtually indistinguishable from far left. Far left is big government, total control, "we know best" (we being the gov't), all of it done for the "good of the people". Sheep. Human nature being what it is however, picture Animal Farm. Everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others.

    The far right at its extreme would best be described as Mad Max. No government, no laws, no restrictions, no protections. You live or die by your own strengths and voluntary alliances and associations.


    What American President was responsible for, the Tuskegee experiment, infecting black Americans with syphilis without their knowledge or permission and tracking the progress of the disease? What American President rounded up Japanese-Americans and put them into camps, destroying and confiscating their businesses. In nature, little different from what the NAZIs were doing, just a lesser degree???
    Last edited by ric27; 09-14-11 at 09:22 PM.

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