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Thread: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

  1. #541
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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Now we see how you operate. Earlier you said that you hold your positions because you've thought them through and researched them in detail.

    Let me hold your ass to the fire and show everyone exactly how you define "well thought out and researched positions."

    Number of Foreign Born Vietnamese in the US= 1,117,800

    The US took in an initial surge of 125,000 Vietnamese refugees in 1975.
    Between 1975 and 1980 and additional 120,000 Vietnamese were in the US, the majority of this population gain likely attributable to intake of refugees rather than from births in America.
    The US operated the Orderly Departure Program to process Vietnamese refugees between 1980 and 1994 and this program processed 531,310 refugees.

    All together, the US accepted 823,000 refugees.



    From your own damn source. Read these things before you spout off and show everyone you're an ignoramus:


    Almost half of Vietnamese-born lawful permanent residents in 2007 were admitted as the immediate relatives of US citizens. Of the 28,691 Vietnamese born granted LPR status in 2007, 48.7 percent (13,974) were immediate relatives of US citizens, 43.3 percent (12,430) were family-sponsored immigrants, and 6.2 percent (1,768) were refugees and asylees.


    Of the 1,117,800 foreign born Vietnamese in the US, all of the immigration in the 70s, 80s and 90s was characterized by the refugee flight from Vietnam. Family members of American citizens were noted but that didn't mean that they weren't qualified as refugees under the ODP. How on Earth do you figure that "Most Vietnamese immigrants are not political refugees" when there were 776,000 Vietnamese (823,000 Indochinese) refugees who were accepted into the US?

    You misread the characterization of the immigrant categories for 2007 and believed that that characterization applied to all Vietnamese immigrants accepted into the US since the 1970s. This misunderstanding highlights for us all your ignorance on this topic because anyone who had even rudimentary knowledge of the issue would have recognized that your claim didn't make sense.

    Here's some helpful advice for you - don't jump onto the internet and do a quick read on a topic and then posture like you're a ****ing expert on the topic or you'll always have your ass handed to you. So far, we've determined that you have no knowledge of scientific method (from an earlier debate) and now we know that you knew jack-**** about the history of Vietnamese immigration to the US.
    Wow, what a brilliantly pompous, and yet inaccurate report! You must have gotten an C in Wikipedia last year.

    I see you linked to the Wikipedia page for your assertion that "Between 1975 and 1980 and additional 120,000 Vietnamese were in the US" ... "likely attributable to intake of refugees". In other words, you have no support for your assumption that they were refugees, and thus no support for your naked assertion that the US accepted 823,000 refugees. Of course you're also relying on numbers that are at least five years old. It's a shame that, as usual, you overplayed your hand. I'm willing to concede that close to half (mas o menos) of the Vietnamese are refugees. I take my hat off to the Wikipedia expert on Vietnamese immigration.

  2. #542
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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I see you linked to the Wikipedia page for your assertion that "Between 1975 and 1980 and additional 120,000 Vietnamese were in the US" ... "likely attributable to intake of refugees". In other words, you have no support for your assumption that they were refugees, and thus no support for your naked assertion that the US accepted 823,000 refugees.
    The US only accepted 650 Vietnamese immigrants between 1950 and 1974. Then came the first wave of refugees, a 125,000. There was no legal emigration from Vietnam in the immediate post-75 era. The first wave of boat people refugees took place in the late 70s. By the 1980 Census there were 245,000 Vietnamese in America. Then the ODP managed the refugee flow throughout the 80-90s and then it closed down. The subsequent immigration categories didn't begin until 2005.

    Anyone can do the math.

    The other link provides the source for the 823,000 claim. There is some variance on the count because some of the refugees where ethnic Chinese but living in Vietnam and so on. A total of 823,000 refugees admitted into the US of which776,000 were listed as Vietnamese.

    You know, you actually have more class when you're drunk and posting on this board because then you do admit your error and you do it straight up. When you're sober, like now, you talk smack, do a quick scan of material culled from the internet and form an impression based on a snippet of misread material, then you puff up like a rooster, pretend that you know what you're talking about and when you're shown to be in the wrong, you talk more smack. This fits your pattern - you arrive at your conclusions first and then you go searching for some information which you can contort to fit your conclusion, even when it doesn't make prima facia sense to anyone who knows anything about the history of the boat people refugee crisis. This is why you don't change your positions on issues - they're not well researched and thought out, as you claim, they're simply emotional positions which are impervious to contradictory evidence.

    Don't posture as knowledgeable about a topic when the sum total of your knowledge consists of 3 minutes of reading a fact sheet on topic.

  3. #543
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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    The Vietnamese were a hugely unpopular group immigrant group in the US. The support they had came from very specific sectors of society. African Americans have a far broader base of support in addition to specific government programs working on their behalf.
    Being hugely unpopular does not discount the importance of strong community support. The "broad base of support" for black Americans is arguable at best particularly in comparison to the type of support that Vietnamese immigrants were given. Families were provided with "sponsors" who were charged with helping them to assimilate into American society and succeed. Black Americans do not have this. Yes, there are programs meant to help them, but not with the same personal attention. It marks the difference between a student who is provided with a school and a student who is provided with both a school and one-on-one tutor.

    Your reference to a historical tradition of education/success is just you relying on stereotypes. The first wave of Vietnamese to arrive were the elite of South Vietnam, so they would fit your description, but the later waves of refugees were far down scale.
    Perhaps I worded that poorly: historical tradition of emphasizing education and success. That's not a stereotype. That's just a cultural reality for much of Asia really. Although...Vietnamese Americans have the lowest education attainment rate of Asian Americans so perhaps your use of them as an example was a poor choice anyway.

    However, ad arguendo, if their success in America relative to African Americans is due to their "historical tradition of education/success" then it's time that African Americans developed that same damn " tradition of education/success" and then they too should experience a better path towards upward mobility.
    I'm talking about what is not what you think it should be.

    You don't need a lot of ambition and drive to flee for your life.
    I disagree. It might not have been innate drive, but it was drive acquired through fighting for your life, something black Americans don't have to do.

    You citing a fact doesn't make an argument.
    You cited a fact to go off on your "black people are dumb" rant and I cited a fact to explain that your argument doesn't hold water. You have no argument when it comes to generalizing blacks, you never will.

    I can plainly see your fingernails clawing into the disintegrating raft as you hang on for dear life as your model of the world doesn't hang together and so you throw out feeble arguments whenever you can in order to deflect the onslaught of evidence and reason which is tearing your tattered raft apart.
    This is called a "delusion of grandeur". I think of you and your arguments as nothing more than Stormfront drivel. I can't believe you think anybody on this board would have such a significant reaction to anything you post.

    As I expected, a "Dog ate my homework" excuse.

  4. #544
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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    The US only accepted 650 Vietnamese immigrants between 1950 and 1974. Then came the first wave of refugees, a 125,000. There was no legal emigration from Vietnam in the immediate post-75 era. The first wave of boat people refugees took place in the late 70s. By the 1980 Census there were 245,000 Vietnamese in America. Then the ODP managed the refugee flow throughout the 80-90s and then it closed down. The subsequent immigration categories didn't begin until 2005.

    Anyone can do the math.

    The other link provides the source for the 823,000 claim. There is some variance on the count because some of the refugees where ethnic Chinese but living in Vietnam and so on. A total of 823,000 refugees admitted into the US of which776,000 were listed as Vietnamese.

    You know, you actually have more class when you're drunk and posting on this board because then you do admit your error and you do it straight up. When you're sober, like now, you talk smack, do a quick scan of material culled from the internet and form an impression based on a snippet of misread material, then you puff up like a rooster, pretend that you know what you're talking about and when you're shown to be in the wrong, you talk more smack. This fits your pattern - you arrive at your conclusions first and then you go searching for some information which you can contort to fit your conclusion, even when it doesn't make prima facia sense to anyone who knows anything about the history of the boat people refugee crisis. This is why you don't change your positions on issues - they're not well researched and thought out, as you claim, they're simply emotional positions which are impervious to contradictory evidence.

    Don't posture as knowledgeable about a topic when the sum total of your knowledge consists of 3 minutes of reading a fact sheet on topic.
    Dude, the sum of your knowledge on the topic is a quick scan of Wikipedia, so you might want to climb off your high hobby horse. You couldn't even give a straight rendition of the Wikipedia page, which wasn't even necessary as it supported your case without the fabrication. I would be less inclined to question what you say if you weren't so consistently inaccurate and didn't cherry pick your sources.

  5. #545
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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    The "broad base of support" for black Americans is arguable at best particularly in comparison to the type of support that Vietnamese immigrants were given.
    Then make an argument. Just saying that a position is arguable doesn't bolster your claim. You're staking out an asinine position here. It amounts to the fact that there was more support for Vietnamese refugees than for African-American fellow citizens.

    Families were provided with "sponsors" who were charged with helping them to assimilate into American society and succeed. Black Americans do not have this.
    Do you even have an inkling of how demeaning and insulting this position is to African-Americans? You're claiming that they can't succeed in America unless some good white, church going, people reach out to them and teach them how to live in America.

    Although...Vietnamese Americans have the lowest education attainment rate of Asian Americans so perhaps your use of them as an example was a poor choice anyway.
    I chose them as an example because, as a group, they have suffered horrible depredation and faced many obstacles when they arrived here, far more than other groups, and because they've done relatively well for themselves despite these handicaps.

  6. #546
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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post

    You know, you actually have more class when you're drunk and posting on this board because then you do admit your error and you do it straight up. When you're sober, like now, you talk smack, do a quick scan of material culled from the internet and form an impression based on a snippet of misread material, then you puff up like a rooster, pretend that you know what you're talking about and when you're shown to be in the wrong, you talk more smack. This fits your pattern - you arrive at your conclusions first and then you go searching for some information which you can contort to fit your conclusion, even when it doesn't make prima facia sense to anyone who knows anything about the history of the boat people refugee crisis. This is why you don't change your positions on issues - they're not well researched and thought out, as you claim, they're simply emotional positions which are impervious to contradictory evidence.

    Don't posture as knowledgeable about a topic when the sum total of your knowledge consists of 3 minutes of reading a fact sheet on topic.

    RD - You can throw around as many statistics as you want and you'll just get something like "I don't really believe all that".

    *The facts don't matter to them.* because they are operating from an emotional basis, i.e. their feelings and beliefs.

  7. #547
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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    The facts don't matter to them.* because they are operating from an emotional basis, i.e. their feelings and beliefs.
    Well let me know what you accept the fact of Mutually Assured Destruction when discussing your prophetic visions of the upcoming war with China and this statement won't be quite so ironic.

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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Do you even have an inkling of how demeaning and insulting this position is to African-Americans? You're claiming that they can't succeed in America unless some good white, church going, people reach out to them and teach them how to live in America.
    I'll end the discussion here because the fact that you're twisting my argument to this level illustrates that you're not interested in actual discussion. It's actually pretty disgustingly dishonest and just makes your arguments easier to dismiss since you can't tackle people's posts without dramatically distorting them.

    Facts:
    1. Vietnamese immigrants had specialized attention which bolstered their success.
    2. Vietnamese immigrants had a history of emphasizing education and success.
    3. Vietnamese immigrants entered the United States with a drive they acquired by fighting for their lives.
    4. Vietnamese immigrants had a strong community of support that most immigrants develop.
    5. Vietnamese immigrants had an optimistic perception of the United States.

    These things are greatly lacking in the lower class black American population not because of something innate within them but due to the experiences they've had and the history of their experiences here. As I have said several times in the past, black Americans can obviously overcome the obstacles that meet them, but this does not negate that the obstacles are there and to compare them to people who either lacked some of these obstacles or who had better means of overcoming them is nonsensical. In short, you've placed your example in an incomplete analysis of context - accepting the parts of it which support your point, ignoring the parts that weaken it and distorting the posts of those who point them out because you do not have the means to address them honestly.

  9. #549
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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Well let me know what you accept the fact of Mutually Assured Destruction when discussing your prophetic visions of the upcoming war with China and this statement won't be quite so ironic.
    Off topic, but will respond

    The global economy is the new Mutually Assured Destruction, dude

    There is a dichotomy in predicting future wars. You try to be logical and analyze the tensions, the economics and the "logic" to determine who will and will not fight. But history has shown that most wars began for illogical reasons and therefore, if you really want to predict them, you need to try and think crazy. Not just your crazy, you need to think like "them" crazy.

    France was Germany's largest trading partner in 1939.
    Last edited by ric27; 09-13-11 at 10:53 AM.

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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I'm sure he has a couple black friends, which quailifies him in two ways: 1) He's not a racist and 2) He's an expert on black folks.
    I spend a lot of time among Black people in another country, Apdst, but of course the culture is quite different from that of American or Canadian Black people. I haven't had many real Black friends in our culture since I moved out of the country over 15 years ago. Therefore I am going by my perceptions, which might be in error, but I'd put them against a White liberals any time.

    If you think I'm ever wrong or out of line, please don't hesitate to call me on it and correct me. All I'm doing is trying to get to some kind of truth.

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