Page 54 of 63 FirstFirst ... 4445253545556 ... LastLast
Results 531 to 540 of 629

Thread: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

  1. #531
    Sage
    RiverDad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    04-20-14 @ 02:16 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    5,039

    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    People immigrate for more opportunity, particularly when they come to the United States. This means at least two things: they are some of the most driven of their homeland and they perceive the US as a place where they can succeed. It can, and often does, mean other things including a strong network of support, historical emphasis on education/success and personal attention (Vietnamese immigrants specifically were given this as was pointed out by BWG). So the immigrant population is filled with those of the most drive, positive perception of the US, strong support, historical emphasis on education/success and personal attention aimed at increasing chances of success. These are all things that many poor black Americans do not have, but that Vietnamese immigrants did have. This the context you're missing.
    A nice sprinkling of facts which lead to a faulty conclusion. Refugees fleeing a communist take-over, persecution and death are not in the same category as highly driven immigrants.

    Is this supposed to be a broad statement about blacks? I hope not since Nigerian Americans have the highest level of education in our country.
    Yes, it is a broad statement on blacks. It doesn't say anything about a particular black person and there are very many such people of high accomplishment. What it does say is that there is not a worldwide conspiracy to keep black people down. The problems are internal to the group, not externally imposed on them.

    The Canadian example is a good one. Canadians are very sanctimonious about their liberal attitudes, especially when it comes to a comparison with the US. There was plenty of commentary during the 20th Century from Canadians directed towards America about how non-racist the Canadians were and they went so far as to be the first country to adopt Multiculturalism as state policy. They were so damn sure of their good will and their superior attitudes towards race that they set out to show the Americans how to create a diverse society without all of the baggage that the Americans inflicted upon themselves by harboring their deeply seated racist attitudes. Canada set out to recruit black people as immigrants. The very process that you highlighted above was in play - these immigrants were screened and selected and, lo and behold, the outcomes in Canada mirror those in the US.

    The Canadian experience is very telling. All those white Canadians eager to show the Americans how to construct a multiracial society without racism and, even with a socialized medical system and more generous social welfare programs, the disparities in income and health outcomes mirror those in the US.

    BTW, you based your argument on the fact that African Americans who emigrate from the US do very well in their new countries. I would very much like to see the evidence for your claim. I'm highly skeptical of your claim. Please disabuse me of my skepticism by providing evidence for your claim.

  2. #532
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    A nice sprinkling of facts which lead to a faulty conclusion. Refugees fleeing a communist take-over, persecution and death are not in the same category as highly driven immigrants.
    You think Vietnamese immigration ended in 1975?

  3. #533
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,465

    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You think Vietnamese immigration ended in 1975?
    Actually, it started in 1975.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  4. #534
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Actually, it started in 1975.
    That's right, most Vietnamese immigrants have come here since 1990, and most of them aren't political refugees. About half of them came here as a result of having relatives who were U.S. citizens. "Vietnamese immigrant men were less likely to participate in the civilian labor force than foreign-born men overall."

    Migration Information Source - Vietnamese Immigrants in the United States

  5. #535
    Sage
    RiverDad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    04-20-14 @ 02:16 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    5,039

    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You think Vietnamese immigration ended in 1975?
    Can you ever contribute anything of substance to a conversation or are you some type of Turing Machine designed to just throw out comments that kind of look coherent? Where did I ever suggest that Vietnamese immigration ended in 1975? The Vietnamese refugee flow didn't stop in 1975, that was only the first wave of many. We accepted refugees until 1994 and it was only in 2005 that legal immigration procedures were instituted.

  6. #536
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Can you ever contribute anything of substance to a conversation or are you some type of Turing Machine designed to just throw out comments that kind of look coherent? Where did I ever suggest that Vietnamese immigration ended in 1975? The Vietnamese refugee flow didn't stop in 1975, that was only the first wave of many. We accepted refugees until 1994 and it was only in 2005 that legal immigration procedures were instituted.
    I know it hurts when I bust your flimsy assertions, but man up and deal with it. Most Vietnamese immigrants are not political refugees.

  7. #537
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    A nice sprinkling of facts which lead to a faulty conclusion. Refugees fleeing a communist take-over, persecution and death are not in the same category as highly driven immigrants.
    I was actually talking specifically about the Vietnamese refugees that you've been referencing and yes those refugees had strong community support, personal/individualized attention from the US government aimed at helping them succeed, an optimistic view of the United States, a historical tradition of education/success and yes, they also had drive as evidenced by the high risk many of them took leaving Vietnam.

    Yes, it is a broad statement on blacks.
    The fact that African/Nigerian immigrants have the highest levels of education in the United States makes whatever point you're trying to make irrelevant.

    BTW, you based your argument on the fact that African Americans who emigrate from the US do very well in their new countries. I would very much like to see the evidence for your claim. I'm highly skeptical of your claim. Please disabuse me of my skepticism by providing evidence for your claim.
    Actually, I based my argument on the fact that you don't understand context - which you really don't at all, but I can't find the study which I read in college anyway so the point is irrelevant.

    In conclusion, Vietnamese refugees to the US had several circumstances that black Americans do not have. You're ignoring them which makes it that much easier to disregard everything that you say.

  8. #538
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,465

    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I know it hurts when I bust your flimsy assertions, but man up and deal with it. Most Vietnamese immigrants are not political refugees.
    There's no way they're escaping a brutal Communist dictatorship.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  9. #539
    Sage
    RiverDad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    04-20-14 @ 02:16 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    5,039

    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I know it hurts when I bust your flimsy assertions, but man up and deal with it. Most Vietnamese immigrants are not political refugees.
    Now we see how you operate. Earlier you said that you hold your positions because you've thought them through and researched them in detail.

    Let me hold your ass to the fire and show everyone exactly how you define "well thought out and researched positions."

    Number of Foreign Born Vietnamese in the US= 1,117,800

    The US took in an initial surge of 125,000 Vietnamese refugees in 1975.
    Between 1975 and 1980 and additional 120,000 Vietnamese were in the US, the majority of this population gain likely attributable to intake of refugees rather than from births in America.
    The US operated the Orderly Departure Program to process Vietnamese refugees between 1980 and 1994 and this program processed 531,310 refugees.

    All together, the US accepted 823,000 refugees.

    About half of them came here as a result of having relatives who were U.S. citizens.
    From your own damn source. Read these things before you spout off and show everyone you're an ignoramus:


    Almost half of Vietnamese-born lawful permanent residents in 2007 were admitted as the immediate relatives of US citizens. Of the 28,691 Vietnamese born granted LPR status in 2007, 48.7 percent (13,974) were immediate relatives of US citizens, 43.3 percent (12,430) were family-sponsored immigrants, and 6.2 percent (1,768) were refugees and asylees.


    Of the 1,117,800 foreign born Vietnamese in the US, all of the immigration in the 70s, 80s and 90s was characterized by the refugee flight from Vietnam. Family members of American citizens were noted but that didn't mean that they weren't qualified as refugees under the ODP. How on Earth do you figure that "Most Vietnamese immigrants are not political refugees" when there were 776,000 Vietnamese (823,000 Indochinese) refugees who were accepted into the US?

    You misread the characterization of the immigrant categories for 2007 and believed that that characterization applied to all Vietnamese immigrants accepted into the US since the 1970s. This misunderstanding highlights for us all your ignorance on this topic because anyone who had even rudimentary knowledge of the issue would have recognized that your claim didn't make sense.

    Here's some helpful advice for you - don't jump onto the internet and do a quick read on a topic and then posture like you're a ****ing expert on the topic or you'll always have your ass handed to you. So far, we've determined that you have no knowledge of scientific method (from an earlier debate) and now we know that you knew jack-**** about the history of Vietnamese immigration to the US.

  10. #540
    Sage
    RiverDad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    04-20-14 @ 02:16 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    5,039

    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I was actually talking specifically about the Vietnamese refugees that you've been referencing and yes those refugees had strong community support, personal/individualized attention from the US government aimed at helping them succeed, an optimistic view of the United States, a historical tradition of education/success and yes, they also had drive as evidenced by the high risk many of them took leaving Vietnam.
    The Vietnamese were a hugely unpopular group immigrant group in the US. The support they had came from very specific sectors of society. African Americans have a far broader base of support in addition to specific government programs working on their behalf.

    Your reference to a historical tradition of education/success is just you relying on stereotypes. The first wave of Vietnamese to arrive were the elite of South Vietnam, so they would fit your description, but the later waves of refugees were far down scale.

    However, ad arguendo, if their success in America relative to African Americans is due to their "historical tradition of education/success" then it's time that African Americans developed that same damn " tradition of education/success" and then they too should experience a better path towards upward mobility.

    Your whole model of self-selective immigration, where the most capable and those with high levels of drive are the ones who immigrate doesn't apply to refugees. Refugees flee their country because they don't want to be killed, tortured, reeducated, jailed or persecuted. If those conditions weren't imposed on them, most would stay and live their lives in the country of their birth. You don't need a lot of ambition and drive to flee for your life.

    The fact that African/Nigerian immigrants have the highest levels of education in the United States makes whatever point you're trying to make irrelevant.
    You citing a fact doesn't make an argument. I've already noted the achievement of African immigrants in the US in previous threads and it's because of the very process that you're trying to impose on the Vietnamese refugees - these are the selective few. This is the brain drain from Africa to the US - their brightest leave there and come here. That tells us NOTHING about the rest of the African population nor of the African-American population.

    I can plainly see your fingernails clawing into the disintegrating raft as you hang on for dear life as your model of the world doesn't hang together and so you throw out feeble arguments whenever you can in order to deflect the onslaught of evidence and reason which is tearing your tattered raft apart.

    I can't find the study which I read in college anyway so the point is irrelevant.
    As I expected, a "Dog ate my homework" excuse.

Page 54 of 63 FirstFirst ... 4445253545556 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •