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Thread: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

  1. #521
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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant
    The point wasn't the Vietnamese as much as the idea that people can arrive with very little and still make good in their lives, and this is often most evident in the second generation.

    The Jewish example might have been used, or the Italian, Irish, Icelandic, or any cultural group. The Vietnamese were just more recent.
    My point is that even though there are many 'success stories' about the Vietnamese, there are also many stories that aren't so successful. Same goes for any of the others that you mentioned.

    There are many 'success stories' among the black population as well.
    “We just simply don’t know how to govern” - Rep. Steve Womack (R-AR) a member of the House Budget Committee

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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Another thing from personal experience. The first time I tried to get a car loan I was told to go **** myself withou a cosigner. Two years at my job, real adult full time paycheck.

    Living in a neighborhood full of newly arrived boat people.

    And if they were driving, they were driving new cars. On credit. Hadn't been in the COUNTRY two years. Some kind of program guaranteeing loans.

    Pissed a lot of people off, usually at the Vietnamese themselves. Not me, after the crap they came from I got no problem with a little help. I was pissed at the system for hooking them up while denying me.

    Just saying that they did kinda get their 40 acres and a mule, so didn't exactly start with "nothing".
    The refugees who were evacuated in 1975 were sent to refugee or “relocation” camps in the United States and left after obtaining sponsorship. A sponsor could be an individual, organization, church, or sometimes even a state or local government

    The government categorized them as “refugees” and not “immigrants” thus they were entitled to government welfare benefits such as food stamps. The sponsors and/or an assistance association network assisted the Vietnamese through the process of applying for these government benefits. The Vietnamese population is a little less than 2 million, they had a lot of 'hands on', personal attention.
    “We just simply don’t know how to govern” - Rep. Steve Womack (R-AR) a member of the House Budget Committee

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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    "Look at the Vietnamese" =/ "They are at the top of the socioeconomic ladder," rather it means that "Look at them compared to African-Americans." The comparison is illuminating because most of these people were boatpeople refugees, didn't know the language, didn't know our culture, were peasants and not first world citizens, etc and all sorts of other disadvantages compared to African Americans. By any rational reckoning, with all of these disadvantages, the Vietnamese should be scrapping the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder. They're not.
    Your conclusion requires that you ignore the many differences in history and particularly circumstance between black Americans and Vietnamese immigrants. Data doesn't work without context and you seem to always conveniently forget that.

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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Your conclusion requires that you ignore the many differences in history and particularly circumstance between black Americans and Vietnamese immigrants. Data doesn't work without context and you seem to always conveniently forget that.
    Hand waving.

    If you believe that lack of context is skewing the analysis, then SHOW US HOW the lack of context is skewing the analysis and conclusions.

    All you're doing here is dismissing evidence that you don't like because it undermines your world view and you're conjuring up a "sciency" sounding rationale to do it. What you're really doing is playing Three Wise Monkeys "Hear no evil, see no evil and speak no evil."

    I provided plenty of context. The Vietnamese arrived here after enduring a decades long war, witnessing many tragedies, being victimized by the danger of fleeing across open ocean only to be placed in refugee camps in Thailand and other countries, languishing in these camps for long periods, arriving in America, a first world nation totally different from how life in much of South Vietnam had been lived, not knowing English, not knowing our customs, not having any network of family and friends to help them, most being poorly educated, the whole community being seen by many Americans as being responsible for the deaths of America's sons in Vietnam, etc. These details paint context.

    What you mean is that there is some imaginary victimization context that you apply to blacks in America which makes their lives more difficult than what the Vietnamese encountered, that is, the Vietnamese had it much easier in America than did the blacks. Your evidence? Nada.

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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    What you mean is that there is some imaginary victimization context that you apply to blacks in America which makes their lives more difficult than what the Vietnamese encountered, that is, the Vietnamese had it much easier in America than did the blacks.
    Like I said, data doesn't work without context and your "context" is incomplete. Answer these questions and you'll be able to understand the gaps in your context:

    1. Why do black Americans who immigrate to other countries do well?
    2. Why do people, including black Americans, emigrate/immigrate?

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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Like I said, data doesn't work without context and your "context" is incomplete. Answer these questions and you'll be able to understand the gaps in your context:

    1. Why do black Americans who immigrate to other countries do well?
    2. Why do people, including black Americans, emigrate/immigrate?
    #1 - Show me the evidence that has informed your opinion on issue #1 and I'll respond to you.
    #2 - How the **** would I know? Why do Chinese-Americans immigrate to Denmark? Why do Russian Americans immigrate to New Zealand? Everyone has a reason.

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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    How are blacks doing in Canada, the enlightened land that didn't have all of the racial baggage that the US had and which had a miniscule black population until recently and which has socialized medical care for everyone?


    This paper examines the importance of collecting and reporting data on race and ethnicity in public health and biomedical research in Canada. Literature and available statistics related to social determinants of health were reviewed and analyzed to illustrate that minority populations in Canada, especially Blacks, are likely to experience poorer health outcomes. Statistics Canada in its commitment to multiculturalism uses broad categories such as visible minorities and racialised groups as surrogates for race and ethnicity. These categories, when used in health literature may conceal underlying inequities in health between population groups. Blacks and minority groups in Canada have higher rates of unemployment, lower rates of educational attainment, and lower socioeconomic status. Whenever Canadian data based on race and ethnic categories are reported, disparities are observed. The lack of disaggregated data may hide health disparities.



    Impressive as Canada’s ranking may appear, it would be misleading to assume or think that the improved quality of life is uniformly shared or equally enjoyed by all. The reality and daily-lived experiences of African Canadians paint a very different portrait – a non-flattering one of extreme and disparate poverty, inequality, racism, and general socio-economic insecurity and deprivation. For the most part, African Canadians are outsiders to the Canadian success stories that are depicted in the UNDP’s Human Development Reports and in Canada’s fourth and fifth periodic reports to the Committee.3

    The harsh reality is that most African Canadians exist at the lowest rung of Canada’s economic and social ladder.4 The lived experiences of African Canadians sharply contrast with the Canada the world knows – a First World paradise. In this First World there is a nonspatial Third World populated mostly by indigenous peoples, and African Canadians, who remain trapped in historical patterns of racialized poverty. The poverty rate for African Canadians is three times the average for White Canadians.


    Now this is in a country that purposely opened itself up to black immigration and chose these black immigrants and invited them to become Canadians.

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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    It's also true that immigrants tend to be higher achievers than those who stayed at home. It takes some guts and hard work, and some capital, to pick yourself up and move halfway around the world to pursue better opportunities abroad.
    What's really scary, is that you probably don't even understand the importance of that post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    #1 - Show me the evidence that has informed your opinion on issue #1 and I'll respond to you.
    #2 - How the **** would I know? Why do Chinese-Americans immigrate to Denmark? Why do Russian Americans immigrate to New Zealand? Everyone has a reason.
    Let's just cut this short.

    People immigrate for more opportunity, particularly when they come to the United States. This means at least two things: they are some of the most driven of their homeland and they perceive the US as a place where they can succeed. It can, and often does, mean other things including a strong network of support, historical emphasis on education/success and personal attention (Vietnamese immigrants specifically were given this as was pointed out by BWG). So the immigrant population is filled with those of the most drive, positive perception of the US, strong support, historical emphasis on education/success and personal attention aimed at increasing chances of success. These are all things that many poor black Americans do not have, but that Vietnamese immigrants did have. This the context you're missing.

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    How are blacks doing in Canada, the enlightened land that didn't have all of the racial baggage that the US had and which had a miniscule black population until recently and which has socialized medical care for everyone?
    ...
    Now this is in a country that purposely opened itself up to black immigration and chose these black immigrants and invited them to become Canadians.
    Is this supposed to be a broad statement about blacks? I hope not since Nigerian Americans have the highest level of education in our country.

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    Re: Black unemployment: Highest in 27 years

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post

    Nigerian Americans have the highest level of education in our country.
    Why is that? Is it because better learning starts at home? Literally. Grass roots.

    Maybe if they turn off the TV (everyone), set limits on computer time and video game time (everyone), read more, value and participate educational experiences as a family. Maybe, the Nigerians go over their kid's homework and actively participate in their education. Maybe, they ask questions.

    If a kid is not good at something, taking extra time to practice that skill or have them spend time with a tutor until they get better.

    WTF? It ain't hard

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