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US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

j-mac said:
Is it Obama that is being raided?

Is it Holder?

Or, are they the thugs going after their political enemies with raids using Justice?



j-mac
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You'd be better off just posting video from FauxNews, where you got your inane accusation from in the first place :lol:
 
American said:
In a TV interview with Gibson CEO, he stated that Gibson had a letter from the Indian export authority that the wood they purchased was legal. Apparently have been buying this wood for many years.

Gibson Guitar Wails on Federal Raid - WSJ.com

Why Gibson Guitar Was Raided By The Justice Department : The Record : NPR

CEO of Gibson Guitar a Republican donor; Democrat competitor uses same wood - Landmark Report
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Because people in India don't lie :roll:

Apparently, some people believe everything they hear, as long as it supports their opposition to Obama
 
sangha said:
Because people in India don't lie :roll:

Apparently, some people believe everything they hear, as long as it supports their opposition to Obama
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Just as some people will discount anything printed or said that doesn't support their unwavering love of Obama.
 
The Barbarian said:
Just as some people will discount anything printed or said that doesn't support their unwavering love of Obama.
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WHile the rest of us rely on the facts while laughing at those who whine about the presumption of innoncence before accusing Obama of being the mastermind of everything the govt does
 
 
The wood the Government seized on August 24 is from a Forest Stewardship Council certified supplier and is FSC Controlled, meaning that the wood complies with the standards of the Forest Stewardship Council, which is an industry-recognized and independent, not-for-profit organization established to promote responsible management of the world's forests. FSC Controlled Wood standards require, among other things, that the wood not be illegally harvested and not be harvested in violation of traditional and civil rights. [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Gibson [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]has documentation[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] that proves the charges are baseless and the materials they’re using to make fingerboards for their instruments were acquired under the law, rather than in circumvention of it.[/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]


[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Now I can't say this is true anymore than anyone saying it's false, but if it indeed turns out to be true, then one can only wonder what is going on here. One would hope that the DoJ would do everything in their power to get this either confirmed or proven false as fast as possible but alas that doesn't seem to be the case.[/FONT]


[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]In 2009, more than a dozen agents with automatic weapons invaded the Gibson factory in Nashville. The Government seized guitars and a substantial amount of ebony fingerboard blanks from Madagascar. To date, 1 year and 9 months later, criminal charges have NOT been filed, yet the Government still holds Gibson’s property. Gibson has obtained sworn statements and documents from the Madagascar government and these materials, which have been filed in federal court, show that the wood seized in 2009 was legally exported under Madagascar law and that no law has been violated. [/FONT]


Now just think if this was your company 21 months after being accused of a crime, you still haven't be charged, nor has your property been returned. This latest raid too another $500,000 in materials from Gibson. I can't find the dollar value of what was taken in the first raid.


Asking for justice to be served in two years in my opinion doesn't seem like asking a lot, unless there is another motive behind this. I can certainly see how a company could feel there may well be another motive, Gibson does seem to be singled out for these raids, because I can find nothing where another guitar company has been raided for illegal wood use.


It just seems as this DoJ is as inept at doling out justice, as they are on gun running.
 
sangha said:
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Kinda like this isn't it ??


Obama: "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that “the buck stops here.” Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.
 
The Barbarian said:
Now I can't say this is true anymore than anyone saying it's false............
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Exactly, so let's wait until the investigation and court case is completed before we make a judgment on guilty, or not guilty. That is why we have investigators and court systems.
 
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The Barbarian said:
Confused, so you are saying now that Blagojevich is guilty of trying to sell Obama's seat, and that Obama, or no one on his staff knew anything about it ???
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No, I am saying that believing Blagojevich is innocent just because he says it, is the same as believing the Gibson CEO is innocent just because he says it. The whole reason we have a court system is to determine innocence or guilt.
 
If I am not mistaken the papers from India indicate the wood is a veneer which would be finished wood outside of the act. But in reality the wood is not a veneer and only partially finished requiring more work by Gibson


But now Juszkiewicz isn't feeling so cooperative.

The latest raid revolves around a trade issue. The wood was allegedly exported illegally because it was unfinished and too thick to be a veneer, the only unfinished wood India allows to be shipped, according to a Justice Department affidavit.

Why the U.S. government would enforce an Indian trade law can be explained by century-old legislation called the Lacey Act, which mandates that American companies observe the laws of foreign countries in the trade of many animal parts, plants and their products, including wood, which was added to the act three years ago
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Gibson Guitar raided over Indian ebony - Yahoo! Finance


As for why the US would enforce the laws of other countries when it comes to trade related issues, the US wants other countries to do the same for it, as such it is a reciprocal (sp) issue.
 
"Added to the act three years ago"? Who could possibly have signed that change into law?
 
Catawba said:
No, I am saying that believing Blagojevich is innocent just because he says it, is the same as believing the Gibson CEO is innocent just because he says it. The whole reason we have a court system is to determine innocence or guilt.
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So when will the DoJ officially charge Gibson with a crime then? And until that time... it's just more bull****.
 
Ockham said:
So when will the DoJ officially charge Gibson with a crime then? And until that time... it's just more bull****.
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"The Wheels of Justice turn slowly but exceedingly fine."
 
Catawba said:

"The Wheels of Justice turn slowly but exceedingly fine."
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Is this the same justice system that incarcerates 46% black males who make up 7% of the population? How fine is it? :lamo
 
Ockham said:
Is this the same justice system that incarcerates 46% black males who make up 7% of the population? How fine is it? :lamo
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All the more reason to proceed slowly, to avoid mistakes.
 
Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

Mr. Invisible said:
Well the problem is this (Feds go after Gibson Guitars — RT)
Thus, the US went and raided Gibson due to them breaking Indian laws, not American ones. Thus this brings up the questions Will the US start enforcing the laws of other nations in America?
and 2) Just how much power does the Federal government have?
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I think the logic is that if the wood was purchased illegally then transported across international waterways, then Gibson is breaking international law.
 
Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

Hatuey said:
I think the logic is that if the wood was purchased illegally then transported across international waterways, then Gibson is breaking international law.
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That seems to be the charge, however, it hasn't played out in court and already we have some on this board calling the CEO a criminal, and finding the company guilty before anything is proven. Yet on the same hand those same individuals want the presumption of pure innocence granted the administration in carrying out this jack booted assault on an American Iconic company. Seems rather one sided don't you think?

j-mac
 
Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

j-mac said:
That seems to be the charge, however, it hasn't played out in court and already we have some on this board calling the CEO a criminal, and finding the company guilty before anything is proven. Yet on the same hand those same individuals want the presumption of pure innocence granted the administration in carrying out this jack booted assault on an American Iconic company. Seems rather one sided don't you think?

j-mac
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And you have hypocritically called the CEO innocent before anything is proven. And you continue to make the presumption of innocence argument even though it's obvious that you don't believe in such a presumption because you don't extend it to the president who you have declared guilty without any evidence.

Seems rather two-faced.
 
Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

sangha said:
And you have hypocritically called the CEO innocent before anything is proven. And you continue to make the presumption of innocence argument even though it's obvious that you don't believe in such a presumption because you don't extend it to the president who you have declared guilty without any evidence.

Seems rather two-faced.
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You don't get it. Those charged of crimes in this country ARE presumed innocent. I don't have to say that the administration is guilty of anything to just read and see that the track that it is taking appears to be corrupt. I am not a lawyer, nor am I in any position to do anything other than offer my opinion. That you don't agree with it, or that you want to just deflect anything that shines poorly on Obama is just pure childish pap, and shows a serious lack of understanding, and level of political hack behavior that should make readers of your defense roll their eyes in auto reflex mode.

Now you can, dismiss my opinion, just as I can dismiss yours, so what. In the end, when some of these same arguments come up in the future, and they will under a republican presidency, I will at that time start posting your own words back to you, then we can see the true hypocrisy. Until then, you to me, are little more than a apologist, and mean little other than the pest level of debate.

j-mac
 
Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

j-mac said:
You don't get it. Those charged of crimes in this country ARE presumed innocent. I don't have to say that the administration is guilty of anything to just read and see that the track that it is taking appears to be corrupt. I am not a lawyer, nor am I in any position to do anything other than offer my opinion. That you don't agree with it, or that you want to just deflect anything that shines poorly on Obama is just pure childish pap, and shows a serious lack of understanding, and level of political hack behavior that should make readers of your defense roll their eyes in auto reflex mode.

Now you can, dismiss my opinion, just as I can dismiss yours, so what. In the end, when some of these same arguments come up in the future, and they will under a republican presidency, I will at that time start posting your own words back to you, then we can see the true hypocrisy. Until then, you to me, are little more than a apologist, and mean little other than the pest level of debate.

j-mac
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No, you just don't get it. You continue to argue that Gibson has the presumption of innocence but Obama does not.

And your argument about not being a lawyer and you're just offering an opinion is just more childish pap you dishonestly apply to yourself, but no one else. In your delusion, you think DP is a court of law, and the people who disagree with you are lawyers. We're just offering our opinions just as you are, but you're too dishonest to admit that
 
Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

sangha said:
No, you just don't get it. You continue to argue that Gibson has the presumption of innocence but Obama does not.
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Why does the one leveling a charge deserve anything other than the demand to prove it?

j-mac
 
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