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Thread: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

  1. #71
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    While it seems ridiculous - it is a bit of an important thing to ensure that rare and unique woods and other materials are properly harvested and purchased to advert serious black-market issues and depletion of natural growths.
    I will agree but does this warrant a armed invasion by our law enforcement officer's/EPA/DOJ/whatever upon a long standing legitimate manufacturer.,. or could this have been handled by a simple visit from the EPA and DOJ by a couple of professionals in business suits. My question is why the Gestapo tactics and to what end does this serve.

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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    I will agree but does this warrant a armed invasion by our law enforcement officer's/EPA/DOJ/whatever upon a long standing legitimate manufacturer.,. or could this have been handled by a simple visit from the EPA and DOJ by a couple of professionals in business suits. My question is why the Gestapo tactics and to what end does this serve.
    The answer is "Yes, because it prevents Gibson from destroying evidence"
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    I will agree but does this warrant a armed invasion by our law enforcement officer's/EPA/DOJ/whatever upon a long standing legitimate manufacturer.,. or could this have been handled by a simple visit from the EPA and DOJ by a couple of professionals in business suits. My question is why the Gestapo tactics and to what end does this serve.
    It leads one to believe that there's something more behind these two raids than just a question about paperwork and imports....
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The answer is "Yes, because it prevents Gibson from destroying evidence"
    Gibson has to much to lose in destroying the evidence, the fine would be far cheaper and face saving rather than being dragged through the judicial system. Non the less there is constitutional issue here, just because Gibson is a manufacturer it is still protected by our constitutions. The EPA in it's self is a unconstitutional organization and has not been ratified by congress, therefor it has no power legitimately to enforce any law.

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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    It leads one to believe that there's something more behind these two raids than just a question about paperwork and imports....
    makes me wonder, but I betcha if i was to walk though Gibson Guitar plant I probably wouldn't find many M4A-1 toting plant workers.

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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    Gibson has to much to lose in destroying the evidence, the fine would be far cheaper and face saving rather than being dragged through the judicial system. Non the less there is constitutional issue here, just because Gibson is a manufacturer it is still protected by our constitutions. The EPA in it's self is a unconstitutional organization and has not been ratified by congress, therefor it has no power legitimately to enforce any law.
    Hold on, where does one get the idea that Gibson would destroy evidence? They didn't destroy evidence in 2009 when they were raided, they didn't destroy evidence this time or any time in between. That's a strawman... and they're still out 1 million in wood product from the two confiscations according to Gibson's CEO, and 3 million in total costs including legal costs with NO charges, and the DOJ won't discuss the confiscations. Either charge Gibson with a crime and fine them or give the product back / and or compensate them.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    makes me wonder, but I betcha if i was to walk though Gibson Guitar plant I probably wouldn't find many M4A-1 toting plant workers.
    If you listened to the radio interview I posted earlier, there's some hinting of politics... Gibson's CEO says the major guitar manufacturers all get their woods from the same countries, yes we don't see raids occurring with Fender as Fender made some very nice contributions to Democrats and the Obama presidency run. I don't know if that's true or not but that's what was said.

    And I agree... the bullet proof jackets and swat team assault tactics are a bit over the line.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    Gibson has to much to lose in destroying the evidence, the fine would be far cheaper and face saving rather than being dragged through the judicial system. Non the less there is constitutional issue here, just because Gibson is a manufacturer it is still protected by our constitutions. The EPA in it's self is a unconstitutional organization and has not been ratified by congress, therefor it has no power legitimately to enforce any law.
    Because we know that people who break the law are always deterred by fines

    Maybe cops should raid drug dens unarmed. After all, the penalties for shooting a cop are far more severe than just giving up and going to jail

    And there's nothing "unconstitutional" about raiding a place of business with a warrant. You're heading into wingnut world with the "EPA is unconstitutional" rant
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Hold on, where does one get the idea that Gibson would destroy evidence? They didn't destroy evidence in 2009 when they were raided, they didn't destroy evidence this time or any time in between. That's a strawman... and they're still out 1 million in wood product from the two confiscations according to Gibson's CEO, and 3 million in total costs including legal costs with NO charges, and the DOJ won't discuss the confiscations. Either charge Gibson with a crime and fine them or give the product back / and or compensate them.
    No I was replying to Sangha, if in fact this was the case, which I think it wasn't.

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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    If you listened to the radio interview I posted earlier, there's some hinting of politics... Gibson's CEO says the major guitar manufacturers all get their woods from the same countries, yes we don't see raids occurring with Fender as Fender made some very nice contributions to Democrats and the Obama presidency run. I don't know if that's true or not but that's what was said.

    And I agree... the bullet proof jackets and swat team assault tactics are a bit over the line.
    If politics are the motivating factor in these raids, then some ones or asses have to kicked. To piss all over our constitutional rights in the name of the almighty buck is B/S.

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