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Thread: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

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    Re: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    It's the law. When the police arrest someone, they don't let them go just because they claim they have the right paperwork.
    It's also the law, that when there's overwhelimg proof that no crime has been committed, the cops leave that person alone, too.

    However, I will say that confiscation laws (and there are plenty of them) are often unfair, but we wouldn't have them if it weren't for the rightwingers who pushed for them.
    Care to point out some examples of that? All I see in this case is a Gestapo like DOJ, that is being run by Libbos.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  2. #52
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    Gibson Guitars raided

    The Fed's have raided Gibson now twice. In 2009 they were raided under the Lacey Act for Ebony from Madagascar, which bans and regulates illegally exported/imported woods to the United States. There's a real reason for the Lacey Act which protects the poaching of banned woods and illegal logging overseas. However, the 2009 raid yielded accusations and confiscations but no charges. In August 24th 2011, there was yet another raid on woods imported from India with no charges levied.

    Gibson says they have complied with all U.S. and foreign laws on the importation of woods. Yet a government official has told Gibson in a legal pleading from 2009 that all this would go away if labor was used in Madagascar. You heard that right. Ship the jobs overseas and you won't have a problem.

    Gibson so far has lost about 1 million dollars in materials and approximately 3 million dollars loss in total with NO CHARGES BEING FILED in 3 years.

    Listen to the KMJ580 interview with Gibson CEO Henry Juszkiewicz from 9/1/2011.

    http://www.kmj580.com/common/global_audio/174/34048.mp3



    This is just as bizarre as anything I've ever heard. Gibson has been aligned with Greenpeace and Forrest Stewardship Council, Rainforest Council for FEC certified supplies - and the government wants Gibson to ship the jobs overseas and they won't have any more hassels.

    Secondly - armed agents checking for illegal wood in a Guitar factory?

    WTF. More insanity by the DOJ.

    NPR Coverage of the Story
    Why Gibson Guitar Was Raided By The Justice Department : The Record : NPR
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    EPA raids Gibson Guitar

    I don't want to make this into a political argument on this thread or topic, but I think everyone here should say WTF. The EPA and DOJ decided to raid Gibson guitar with officers (thugs maybe pirates), that where armed with badges, guns and para military garb, why all this?
    Guitar Frets: Environmental Enforcement Leaves Musicians in Fear | Postmodern Times - WSJ.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    I don't want to make this into a political argument on this thread or topic, but I think everyone here should say WTF. The EPA and DOJ decided to raid Gibson guitar with officers (thugs maybe pirates), that where armed with badges, guns and para military garb, why all this?
    Guitar Frets: Environmental Enforcement Leaves Musicians in Fear | Postmodern Times - WSJ.com
    It's good, they should have followed the lead of all other "respectable" businesses and moved their operations to another country. We are under international law, and the fact is that because of agenda 21, Gibson is not allowed to use wood from india, even when it meets the conditions required by the enviro-fascists, must be worked on by Indians ( even if the Indian law is only relevant for the work done IN India )

    Oh, as a side note, if you own a Gibson guitar and cannot prove where the wood in your guitar originates, it's liable to be confiscated for violating environmental laws.

    What you don't like the UN laws beginning to be implemented worldwide??? You do realize that if you interpret the laws loosely ( about as loosely as those that raided Gibson interpreted the laws for the raid) well, you can be treated as some sort of "extremist" / "terrorist".

    This is uncle Sam telling everyone that he's tired of listening to your music and artistic self-expression.

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    Re: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Thanks for the case Dan. I guess what I am saying is in this 'over reach', using the office, in this case US Attorney, or USAG, or heck maybe even President, (I still don't think it is impossible that Obama couldn't pick up a phone and tell Holder to lean on them) And no one willing, or courageous enough to investigate into the why's, then we are on a slippery slope to losing this country.

    j-mac
    The "why" of overcriminalization is three-fold -- because we let them, because we reward them for going off the deep end, because sometimes we punish them for not going off the deep end.

    If someone has credible evidence of a conspiracy more complicated than that to present I'll be happy to look at it, but I've seen nothing to suggest that this is nothing more than a continuation of the trend began before Obama was ever elected to anything.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Yank View Post
    With all the problems this country currently has you'd think this administration would have better things to do but then they are the cause of many of the problems so I'm not that surprised. What really stands out here is that the goverment actually suggested to Gibson that if they took there fingerboard work overseas that the problem would go away. Huh? and you wonder why we have the unemployment where it is. These clowns are actually sending more jobs overseas than they are helping create here. Another point here is that Gibson is a non-union shop with a CEO that has contributed to Republican campaigns while the competion (Fendor, a union shop) has not been bothered. So this is clearly politically motivated. If Obama gets another 4 years I would be concerned for business's that are non-union & have CEO's that lean Republican, we could be looking at a mass exodus of jobs if Obamas gestapo teams are sent out to take these companies down (amoung many other of his policies that export jobs).
    Wow. Despite clear evidence that this is merely the continuation of years of prosecutors gone wild, somebody found a way to make it about labor unions. I'm impressed!
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    They showed up at Gibson's plant with a heavily armed SWAT team.
    So, in other words, rather than tie up local patrol officers to help secure the scene, they employed resources not normally needed for day-to-day law enforcement.

    Kinda makes sense when you think about it that way.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

    Moderator's Warning:
    US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebonySeveral threads merged into one. Let's please look for other threads on a topic before starting a new one, 6 on this topic is excessive.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Re: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It's also the law, that when there's overwhelimg proof that no crime has been committed, the cops leave that person alone, too.
    No, actually, it's not. That's entirely within the prosecutor's discretion.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Care to point out some examples of that? All I see in this case is a Gestapo like DOJ, that is being run by Libbos.
    The Organized Crime Control Act of 1970 (a portion of which created RICO), signed into law by President Nixon. RICO was expanded 4 times by President Reagan.

    You can shut up about "Libbos" now.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    So, in other words, rather than tie up local patrol officers to help secure the scene, they employed resources not normally needed for day-to-day law enforcement.

    Kinda makes sense when you think about it that way.
    Only if you think it makes sense to go in with an heavily armed unit.

    Seems to me that a couple of agents could have walked in and said, "um...we have a little matter we need to discuss with you".

    I highly doubt that there were large weapons caches in Gibson guitar factory, waiting to be broken out in the event of a raid by game wardens.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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