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Thread: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

  1. #451
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    Re: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Wrong. I am saying there are NO other guitar companies which have been raided
    Because there is no evidence that other guitar companies violated the Lacey Act. Why is that such a hard concept for you?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I have searched, and can find no other guitar manufacturer in the US, that I assume uses the same woods that Gibson was raided for, having been raided themselves...Therefore, I, unless shown that others have had the same treatment as Gibson, would have to conclude that Gibson is being singled out.
    When you assume, as you have done, you do not have to conclude anything





    I don't follow you. the 16th amendment is about laying and collecting taxation, it mentions nothing about arrest.
    If you were able to remember your own posts (something you've been shown unable to do twice today) you'd realize that "16th" was a typo. We were referring to YOUR claim that "6th" had been violated.
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    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  3. #453
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    Re: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    no. here is what is different
    all other manufacturers - they incurred no raid because the government does not suspect them of violating the lacey act
    gibson - incurred two raids because the government does suspect them of violating the lacey act

    notice how that describes the DIFFERENCE and NOT the SIMILARITY

    pity such basic logic is lost within your posts
    Jeeez. I can fully sympathize in that we don't know for certain that Gibson was targeted for anything other than a possible legitimate violation. The opinion that they have been improperly targeted has merit as well. To at least a few of us, the due-process expectation seems a fairy-tale at this point.

    I noted this before, and I will again. You are a bit naive in how this works. As has been discussed at length here is the ability of the government to abuse such as the Lacey Act. I suspect that you would agreee that the government often goes after the biggest fish with regard to a possible violation, and then makes an example of them, so as to influence beyond those parameters. Frankly, that would seem as common sense. But the issue here is four years and no charges. Anywhere.

    I have not read all 450 posts. A distinction that I had wanted to illuminate is that while the Lacey Act goes back 100 years, its an entirely different beast now when looking at all the myriad of world-wide species that the US now has a written obligation to protect if it chooses to. The main issue for me being that, as stated in the Lacey Act, if some third-world corruptomatic piss-ant country is making a mockery of its CITES participation, where everyone there is getting payola, our government can now do as it has done with Gibson. Where Gibson has yet to be shown to have knowingly violated any law. Or unknowingly violated any law.

    I've got CITES permits for Appendix II listings on my desk as we speak. I import from Madagascar. I export to a dozen countries. I know this business.
    Last edited by Eighty Deuce; 05-03-12 at 03:01 PM.

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    Re: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Because there is no evidence that other guitar companies violated the Lacey Act. Why is that such a hard concept for you?
    So you admit that there was no evidence that anyone BUT Gibson violated the LA?

    So Gibson was the only corp that may have violated the LA, but you still insist that they were "singled out"?

    No, that's not too partisan
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The judge that issued the search warrant obviously disagrees with you, as he felt there was sufficient grounds, most likely because he was more familiar with the evidence against Gibson than you are.
    Catawba. Grounds for a warrant is not the same as to be charged. Surely you know this ..... or maybe not ?

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    Re: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Jeeez. I cn fully sympathize in that we don't know for certain that Gibson was targeted for anything other than a possible legitimate violation. The opinion that they have been improperly trgeted has merit as well.
    And *that* is the point. Ockhams argument is so dishonest, he can't admit to this clear and obvious point

    I noted this before, and I will again. You are a bit naive in how this works. As has been discussed at length here is the ability of the government to abuse such as the Lacey Act.
    And as YOU have pointed out, there is no evidence that this has happened in this case. Ockhams delusional claims are supported only by partisanship and a dishonest refusal to admit to obvious truths
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  7. #457
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    Re: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You're the one who's changing your own words. Given their inanity, I can't say that I blame you

    You said that Gibson was targeted. We're still waiting for you to prove this delusion of yours
    If it is indeed such a delusion, and you seem to be insinuating that the music industry is replete similar raids and confiscations to that which has happened to Gibson Guitar. If that is the case, then you should have no problem just linking to the others that have been raided, with their product confiscated...


    j-mac
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    Re: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    When you assume, as you have done, you do not have to conclude anything







    If you were able to remember your own posts (something you've been shown unable to do twice today) you'd realize that "16th" was a typo. We were referring to YOUR claim that "6th" had been violated.
    I assume that they use the same types of woods, from largely the same sources...Is that wrong?

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I assume that they use the same types of woods, from largely the same sources...Is that wrong?

    j-mac
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  10. #460
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    Re: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Catawba. Grounds for a warrant is not the same as to be charged. Surely you know this ..... or maybe not ?
    I thought the court authorized search is what you and the others were complaining about? If not that, what???
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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