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Thread: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

  1. #341
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    This paper provides more information about the deforestation (degradation) of the rainforests in Madagascar, India, and other countries for those with an interest in the reason why illegal trafficking is such a concern:

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    Last edited by Catawba; 09-19-11 at 12:36 AM.
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  2. #342
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    ANd complaining about the govt without any evidence is political. It is based on your political ideology and nothing else. It certainly isn't based on any evidence because it's obvious you have none.



    The topic is the one you raised - multiple searches without an indictment. There's nothing wrong with bringing up other instances when this has happened, instances I doubt you had a problem with because they don't fit your political agenda.
    Sangha you going off the deep end and off topic. We will have to agree to disagree.

  3. #343
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    Sangha you going off the deep end and off topic. We will have to agree to disagree.
    No, you are the one who has repeatedly claimed that there is something unconstitutional and wrong about this investigation, but you have yet to provide any evidence to back yourself up. Your refusal to defend your own claim is very revealing.

    You have claimed that there is something wrong with multiple searches without a charge. Where in the constitution does it say that multiple searches are unreasonable? Where in the law does it say multiple searches are not allowed?

    Your refusal to defend your own claim is very revealing.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  4. #344
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You can rant all you want about "SOMETHING IS WRONG!!!!" and "SOMETHING IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL" but without evidence, you've got nothing but your rant

    I didn't say Gibson was innocent, nor did I say the raids in and of themselves were wrong, what I did question was why after 19 months there have been no charges filed.


    It's shouldn't matter if you're a leftist liberal like yourself, or a conservative person like myself to see the problem with that.
    If the government has a case, fine, then present it and let the judge or jury decide. 19 months is more then enough time to make your case. I fail to see the difference between this and holding a person for 19 months without charging him, are you for that as well?


    Perhaps if you were to read, and comprehend what a poster actually says, you would be better served and taken a bit more seriously

  5. #345
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    I didn't say Gibson was innocent, nor did I say the raids in and of themselves were wrong, what I did question was why after 19 months there have been no charges filed.
    Again, you can rant all you want about "SOMETHING IS WRONG!!!!" and "SOMETHING IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL" but without evidence, you've got nothing but your rant

    Investigations often take a long time. The fact that this involves events in other nations makes it even more difficult and complex. Some investigations, include investigations into smuggling, take years.

    And I read and understood what you said. You think there's something wrong but all you've got is "It's taking too long!!". You don't seem to understand the law or police work. Investigating crimes like this takes more time than a simple burglary.

    This has been pointed out many time in this thread. Maybe you should take your own advice and read, and comprehend, what has already been said
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  6. #346
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Again, you can rant all you want about "SOMETHING IS WRONG!!!!" and "SOMETHING IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL" but without evidence, you've got nothing but your rant

    Investigations often take a long time. The fact that this involves events in other nations makes it even more difficult and complex. Some investigations, include investigations into smuggling, take years.
    How does any of that apply to Gibson? You didn't really say... or are you insinuating that Gibson smuggled the wood?
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  7. #347
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    How does any of that apply to Gibson? You didn't really say... or are you insinuating that Gibson smuggled the wood?
    You are hung up on his term smuggled rather trafficking??? Is there really a substantial difference related to a political forum discussion?

    "smug·gle (smgl)
    v. smug·gled, smug·gling, smug·gles
    v.tr.
    1. To import or export without paying lawful customs charges or duties.
    2. To bring in or take out illicitly or by stealth."
    smuggled - definition of smuggled by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

    "traf·fic (trfk)
    n.
    1.
    a. The passage of people or vehicles along routes of transportation.
    b. Vehicles or pedestrians in transit: heavy traffic on the turnpike; stopped oncoming traffic to let the children cross.
    2.
    a. The commercial exchange of goods; trade.
    b. Illegal or improper commercial activity: drug traffic on city streets."
    trafficking - definition of trafficking by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
    Last edited by Catawba; 09-19-11 at 03:37 PM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  8. #348
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    How does any of that apply to Gibson? You didn't really say... or are you insinuating that Gibson smuggled the wood?
    No, I am pointing out that smuggling is what Gibson is being investigated for being involved in. Maybe you should read the OP again.

    on edit: Catawba is right that "smuggling" is a word commonly used to refer to illegal "trafficking". ockhams' question is pedantic
    Last edited by sangha; 09-19-11 at 04:48 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  9. #349
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    No, I am pointing out that smuggling is what Gibson is being investigated for being involved in. Maybe you should read the OP again.

    on edit: Catawba is right that "smuggling" is a word commonly used to refer to illegal "trafficking". ockhams' question is pedantic
    The countries in question said the imports where legal and it is not in the jurisdiction of our DOJ to interpret foreign countries laws and then apply their interpretation of foreign laws to our citizens. Now for the finer point, what in question is what the DOJ determines what constitutes a finished product under Indian law, even the Indian government has claimed it was a lawful shipment along with Madagascar. Perhaps this is why it has been 19 months and no charges filed, the DOJ has nothing to file. Therefor my claim of the 4th and 6th amendment could apply amongst other claims from Gibson, I think Gibson will come out on top and if so the DOJ needs to be slapped. This isn't the only abuse/misinterpretion of the Lacey act that has happen to our citizens and some have been sentenced to two to eight years in prison for carrying lobster in a plastic bag apposed to a box, now is this where we want to go.
    http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/rightsandfreedoms/a/alobsterstail.htm
    http://www.threefeloniesaday.com/Typ...ult.aspx#Lacey
    Last edited by deltabtry; 09-20-11 at 12:06 AM.

  10. #350
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    The countries in question said the imports where legal and it is not in the jurisdiction of our DOJ to interpret foreign countries laws and then apply their interpretation of foreign laws to our citizens. Now for the finer point, what in question is what the DOJ determines what constitutes a finished product under Indian law, even the Indian government has claimed it was a lawful shipment along with Madagascar.
    Link to where the countries in question said that what Gibson allegedly did was legal please?

    Perhaps this is why it has been 19 months and no charges filed, the DOJ has nothing to file. Therefor my claim of the 4th and 6th amendment could apply amongst other claims from Gibson, I think Gibson will come out on top and if so the DOJ needs to be slapped.
    Sorry, but unsubstantiated speculation does not back up your claim that the 4th and 6th amendment was violated by DOJ and the courts that issued the search warrants.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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