Page 32 of 54 FirstFirst ... 22303132333442 ... LastLast
Results 311 to 320 of 531

Thread: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

  1. #311
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:41 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,162

    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    What are the specific charges against Gibson guitar?
    have you not been following
    this is the investigative period
    the typical process is to file charges AFTER the evidence has been acquired


    granted, you defended the shrub/republican era of governance when the approach was different
    fortunately, Obama has abandoned the following neocon order of operations: ready ... fire ... aim !!!
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  2. #312
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    Not referring to the warrants, but the number of searches without being charged with a crime within a reasonable time frame.
    Show me the Court decision that backs up your contention that investigations must conclude with charges being placed, and that if you are investigated once, you can never be investigated again at any point in the future?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #313
    Guru
    deltabtry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    MA.
    Last Seen
    11-26-16 @ 03:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    4,021

    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    As per usual, an investigation precedes charges.
    This true but with a reasonable time frame and the accused should be informed of the proposed charges which claims it has not been informed of.
    "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence."

  4. #314
    Guru
    deltabtry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    MA.
    Last Seen
    11-26-16 @ 03:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    4,021

    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Show me the Court decision that backs up your contention that investigations must conclude with charges being placed, and that if you are investigated once, you can never be investigated again at any point in the future?
    I will will refer you to the 4th amendment:
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.'

    I highlighted in black above, because being raided the first time (we will say it's warranted) was but as of now not being charged and yet raided again and again not being charged with in a reasonable time frame, I think there is a argument here. Who says that Gibson or anyone else can't be raided on a yearly bases and never be charged.

  5. #315
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    I will will refer you to the 4th amendment:
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.'

    I highlighted in black above, because being raided the first time (we will say it's warranted) was but as of now not being charged and yet raided again and again not being charged with in a reasonable time frame, I think there is a argument here. Who says that Gibson or anyone else can't be raided on a yearly bases and never be charged.
    Again the Constitution does not specify that Constitutional interpretation is decided by deltabtry, it specifies that Constitutional interpretation by the Courts,

    If the court felt the Affidavit for the Gibson case was unreasonable, it would not have issued the search warrant. Are you saying that the search was conducted without a search warrant???

    And please show me the Court decision that backs up your contention that investigations must conclude with charges being placed, and that if you are investigated once, you can never be investigated again at any point in the future?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #316
    Guru
    deltabtry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    MA.
    Last Seen
    11-26-16 @ 03:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    4,021

    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Again the Constitution does not specify that Constitutional interpretation is decided by deltabtry, it specifies that Constitutional interpretation by the Courts,

    If the court felt the Affidavit for the Gibson case was unreasonable, it would not have issued the search warrant. Are you saying that the search was conducted without a search warrant???

    And please show me the Court decision that backs up your contention that investigations must conclude with charges being placed, and that if you are investigated once, you can never be investigated again at any point in the future?
    Again the Constitution does not specify that Constitutional interpretation is decided by deltabtry, it specifies that Constitutional interpretation by the Courts
    The trial hasn't become yet that is if there is ever trial, and who knows the courts may like deltabtry's argument and a new interpretation may be born. I only bringing up a proposed argument which I think would be valid. So the feds can continue to raid Gibson for years to come until they can decide what Gibson will be charged with, would you advocate this policy.

    And please show me the Court decision that backs up your contention that investigations must conclude with charges being placed, and that if you are investigated once, you can never be investigated again at any point in the future?
    There is a point when it becomes harassment. Not arguing the validity of the warrant, I am arguing the harassment on Gibson which can be construed as unreasonable searches IMO.

  7. #317
    Sage
    Lord Tammerlain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:44 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    10,432

    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    The trial hasn't become yet that is if there is ever trial, and who knows the courts may like deltabtry's argument and a new interpretation may be born. I only bringing up a proposed argument which I think would be valid. So the feds can continue to raid Gibson for years to come until they can decide what Gibson will be charged with, would you advocate this policy.

    There is a point when it becomes harassment. Not arguing the validity of the warrant, I am arguing the harassment on Gibson which can be construed as unreasonable searches IMO.
    The point being

    The government currently it argueing that Gibson importerd ebony wood claiming it is a veneer, while the wood actually brought into the US is too thick to be a veneer.

    If this is the case then Gibson violated the law, the government of course needed to gather the wood and associated documents in order to either proof or disprove their case. As for the length of time, the vast majority of court cases vs corporations take years to work through the system


    I have a strong feeling that the Indian company and Gibson made an arrangement for the Indian company to glue thick pieces of Ebony wood to other pieces of wood and claim it is veneered Ebony wood. Then when the wood came to the US Gibson would remove the non ebony wood and finish the Ebony wood as required. This would be a case of fraud and a violation of the Lacey act if I recall correctly. If so Gibson does deserve to be punished, no less so then any importer of illegal goods or people who commit fraud
    Happy Hanukkah Cheerfull Kwanzaa
    Happy Christmas Merry New Year Festivus for the rest of us

  8. #318
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Last Seen
    01-03-16 @ 02:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,761

    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You are wrong. The police often get more than one warrant before charging anyone of a crime. Your dishonest portrayal of the process is not evidence of wrongdoing on the part of the Feds. It is evidence that the rightwingers have no principles, though
    Ya, but if they raid your place and you are not charged with a crime, then you are released.

    There are also issues like statutes of limitation... I'm not sure what they would be for this case, but still, we're not talking about a murder charge or some other SERIOUS crime. Even on face value, at worst their "crime" is that they were victims of fraud and sold what they bought under false pretenses.

    Not quite deserving of the SWAT style raid of the place, when a visit from 2 officers with a warrant would have been sufficient, they sell guitars not crystal meth.

  9. #319
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    sangha go back to your own post 282 and read your post where you quoted me and behold you will have your answer.
    If you went back to #282, then why didn't you quote from it?

    Again, what constitutional process has been skipped? It takes less effort for you to just say it than it does for you to dance around and not answer this simple question
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  10. #320
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    Not referring to the warrants, but the number of searches without being charged with a crime within a reasonable time frame.
    What is unconstitutional about multiple warrants?

    Or is this just another effort by you to make some hazy accusation without backing it up?

    All these posts from you and you still can't describe what your complaint is. It would take less effort for you to just state what constitutional process was skipped than it would for you to do all this dancing around
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

Page 32 of 54 FirstFirst ... 22303132333442 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •