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Thread: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

  1. #291
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Umm, no.

    Here's the process :
    - Police gather evidence enough to show probable cause of a crime taking place, this gets them a warrant.
    - Police use that warrant to get all the evidence of a crime as possible,
    - Police press charges based on that evidence against those that are shown to have a level of guilt... this is typically done while the person awaiting charges is in holding, or as soon as possible afterwards... NOT SEVERAL YEARS LATER AFTER a SECOND warrant, second raid and a second round of arrests.

    The fact that they KNEW WHAT THE CHARGES WERE GOING TO BE, yet were never filed, in spite of a VERY LONG TIME following the search of the premises and the confiscation of property which was said to be in violation... Seriously, woods are NOT THAT complex of a material to draw conclusions from.

    If these conclusions cannot be drawn, then either the law is asinine, rendering illegal what cannot be proven. Or possibly, he's not in violation of any of these laws and is just being persecuted for the crime of providing jobs and a quality product to americans built by americans.
    Your post indicates you are not familiar with the EIA:

    "EIA investigations into environmental crime generate valuable information for professional enforcement officers which can help shape their tactics and strategies."
    Enforcement Assistance - EIA International

    Also see the Affidavit (I posted above) for the search warrant they received:
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #292
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    No one is asserting anything yet, this is my observation so far and the 4th and 6th amendment is pretty clear, not saying this will be the strategy for Gibson but it could play a part.
    then why the hell did you post this misguided rant?:
    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    Isn't our most basic laws and rights based off the constitution? When some one is charged with a crime and they think they have been wrongly accused, isn't the constitution the document we all refer to. If you think I am wrong then state your case why you think so.
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  3. #293
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    No word games from me. I know what you're saying and I know that you're wrong. That's why you can't clearly explain anything that is unconstitutional.

    , and then another without any charges being filed. You're wrong. There's nothing in the constitution that says the govt cant do that. That's why you STILL haven't explained how its unconstitutional, and why you will never explain it.

    Again, the police can issue multiple warrants and conduct multiple raids before issuing an indictment. The govt can also wrongly accuse someone of a crime. It happens all the time. They just can't knowingly accuse someone if they know that they are innocent.
    No read my post again, I said very clearly now, "it would appear" this is a far cry to want you think I said and I quote, "You said it was unconstitutional to have one raid".

  4. #294
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    No read my post again, I said very clearly now, "it would appear" this is a far cry to want you think I said and I quote, "You said it was unconstitutional to have one raid".
    But it does NOT appear to be a violation of the constitution. Just because you say so (repeatedly) that doesn't make it true, or even rational.

    And if I've misunderstood your meaning in any way. it's only because you have not posted ANY evidence to support your inane claim. If it's not the multiple raids, or the multiple warrants, or the fact that there hasn't been any charges YET, then why don't you tell us exactly what is unconstitutional instead of just repeating your absurd rants?

    It is YOU who is suggesting unconstitutionality. It's time to man up and post exactly what was done that is unconstitutional. Or if you prefer weasel words, tell us what "appears" to be unconstitutional
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  5. #295
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    Well if Gibson was raided in 2009 and have yet to be charged and again in 2011 and have yet to be charged, this would appear to me to be a violation of the fourth and sixth amendment.
    I have highlighted the key words in your statement above that does not equate to Gibson's innocence of the alleged criminal activity.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #296
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    then why the hell did you post this misguided rant?:
    My post were clear and read them in order, nothing misguided here. What you guys are trying to do is trip me up on the wording, now that is being disingenuous in regards to this debate.

  7. #297
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    My post were clear and read them in order, nothing misguided here. What you guys are trying to do is trip me up on the wording, now that is being disingenuous in regards to this debate.
    Just post specifics about this so-called "appearance" of unconstitutionality.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  8. #298
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    My post were clear and read them in order, nothing misguided here. What you guys are trying to do is trip me up on the wording, now that is being disingenuous in regards to this debate.
    yes
    your being unable to articulate what you intend to say is our fault
    your being unable to defend what you post is our fault
    got it
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  9. #299
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    Isn't our most basic laws and rights based off the constitution? When some one is charged with a crime and they think they have been wrongly accused, isn't the constitution the document we all refer to. If you think I am wrong then state your case why you think so.
    Fortunately, our laws are based on the court's interpretation of the Constitution, not on your interpretation, or the conservative Claremont Institute's interpretation.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #300
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I have highlighted the key words in your statement above that does not equate to Gibson's innocence of the alleged criminal activity.
    What it all boils down to is that the authorities may have skipped a constitutional processes. I only interested in the constitutional rights being protected from a ever increasing aggressive government. Whether Gibson is guilty or not will be for the courts to decide but Gibson should be afforded all constitutional rights. Have been raid in 2009 and no charges brought forth...what's going on? Then yet another raid and no charged being brought forth, if a crime has been committed the charge the accused.

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